50 replies to this topic

[Ants_Texas]

Context: I am moving to Colorado from Texas after high school (5 years ahead of me), and want to take my colonies with me. However, I only want to obtain a permit to take species from Texas that ALSO live in Colorado. Would you consider this okay?

No debate needed, I just want to know if this would be considered okay by your standards.

Examples of colonies I would like to take:

Pogonomyrmex Barbatus

Camponotus Decipiens

 

 

[Ameise]

I'm not as rigid as some other members, but you would likely need a permit from the State of Colorado, approval from whatever handles their wildlife/natural resources, and a permit and approval from the Federal government as it is an interstate thing.

And I highly doubt you will get said permit/approval. They are very strict about such things.

[CallMeCraven]

You will not get a permit. The USDA requires strict sanitary conditions for permits, well beyond what any residential household or college dorm (assuming that is your next step after HS) can offer. I suggest giving your colonies in Texas to a friend or family member who is interested in ants and starting new colonies in Colorado with locally caught or purchased queens. At least this way you can see your old colonies when you visit Texas.

[ultraex2]

It doesn't hurt to try and apply!  Nothing ventured, nothing gained and you have nothing to lose other than them saying no.

[Ants_Texas]

I'm not as rigid as some other members, but you would likely need a permit from the State of Colorado, approval from whatever handles their wildlife/natural resources, and a permit and approval from the Federal government as it is an interstate thing.

And I highly doubt you will get said permit/approval. They are very strict about such things.

 

 

You will not get a permit. The USDA requires strict sanitary conditions for permits, well beyond what any residential household or college dorm (assuming that is your next step after HS) can offer. I suggest giving your colonies in Texas to a friend or family member who is interested in ants and starting new colonies in Colorado with locally caught or purchased queens. At least this way you can see your old colonies when you visit Texas.

 

 

It doesn't hurt to try and apply!  Nothing ventured, nothing gained and you have nothing to lose other than them saying no.

I will attempt to apply, but even if I get denied it will be fine because Colorado doesn't have Solenopsis invicta.

[T.C.]

Don't waste your time. You won't get one. Callmecraven, already attempted it. And in all reality, if your looking that far down the road.... you haven't even started high school yet, by the time you finish it you may have no interest in ant keeping at all.

[Ants_Texas]

Don't waste your time. You won't get one. Callmecraven, already attempted it. And in all reality, if your looking that far down the road.... you haven't even started high school yet, by the time you finish it you may have no interest in ant keeping at all.

Been told this before. I stand by my plans.

[Jamie_Garrison]

Getting the permit is a reach, I was able to get one that allows me to collect in GA and take to FL where I reside... The process to very lengthy.. I also have two in scientific review for Collecting in South Carolina and Alabama.  I am confident that they will get approved just have to wait...   TBH I have tried an failed many times to get the permits, it is a very strict process and though it is free to apply it is not free to comply.. the lab I had to construct to house my ants cost far more then what I had intended to pay... also the permits only cover one species per permit so i have to do the same process for a number of ants just to legally collect in GA and bring to FL....You have to be associated with an institution, for me it is the Florida State Collection of Arthropods and you have to have a Special Use Authorization to collect on any state or county owned property... all this takes so much time to do and you are at whim of the USDA... most of the interviews I did with them required a response that had 24 hr terms... they are sticklers and require photo proof of all the requirements and you have to let them inspect your holding facilities and you have to get your transportation process  approved....  very long road if you want to attempt this near impossible feat... In my honest opinion I would try to find an ant from your state that not many people have and focus on making the very best formicarium for it and doing a lot of vlogs and journals on them while you are still in Texas and look forward to who you can pass the colonies over to...... be looking ahead to Colorado and find the same situation of ant and do the same thing... keep yourself into the hobby and make the most of it ... Enjoy bud..  

 

Jamie

[Shareallicu]

I would just take them.... who's going to care or even notice?   If going from one state to another is really that difficult, this country is in worse shape than I thought.   Just never release them, it should be fine.

[MrWeather]

He might have to release them tho tbh I say if it's also native in the new state then go ahead but if it's not then just release them in Texas. And you gotta drive over cause carrying ants on airplane is another mess.

[Gabraime]

I would just take them.... who's going to care or even notice?   If going from one state to another is really that difficult, this country is in worse shape than I thought.   Just never release them, it should be fine.

Easy as that!
No worries do it! What he is saying

[T.C.]

I would just take them.... who's going to care or even notice?   If going from one state to another is really that difficult, this country is in worse shape than I thought.   Just never release them, it should be fine.

Easy as that!
No worries do it! What he is saying

The chances of getting caught are indeed small. But it's never wise to advise someone to break the law.

[sgheaton]

Wait...so I shouldn't just go ahead and steal this lady's purse? 

[klawfran3]

Come on guys, isn't it like, in the forum rules to not advise people to break the law? Also the USDA crawls over these boards looking for people breaking the law. It's not that hard to figure out real names of people. Please don't break the law, it's not a responsible thing to do and puts us other ant keepers who don't break them in bad light.

I moved from California to Wyoming and got rid of all of my colonies before I left since I didn't want to break any laws. It sucked to do, but it was worth it.  It's very easy to find ants up here, just start flipping rocks and logs and you'll find a ton of queens. So far I have one Myrmica and four Formica colonies, more than I had back in Cali. The thing about ant keeping is that it doesn't take long to start back up again if you have to get rid of them, you just go out and find a few queens or buy a couple from someone else and you're back in business. Finding queens is free and easy, dealing with the law for smuggling queen ants (which is a FELONY might I add) is neither of those things. Don't break the law.

[Ants_Texas]

Come on guys, isn't it like, in the forum rules to not advise people to break the law? Also the USDA crawls over these boards looking for people breaking the law. It's not that hard to figure out real names of people. Please don't break the law, it's not a responsible thing to do and puts us other ant keepers who don't break them in bad light.

I moved from California to Wyoming and got rid of all of my colonies before I left since I didn't want to break any laws. It sucked to do, but it was worth it.  It's very easy to find ants up here, just start flipping rocks and logs and you'll find a ton of queens. So far I have one Myrmica and four Formica colonies, more than I had back in Cali. The thing about ant keeping is that it doesn't take long to start back up again if you have to get rid of them, you just go out and find a few queens or buy a couple from someone else and you're back in business. Finding queens is free and easy, dealing with the law for smuggling queen ants (which is a FELONY might I add) is neither of those things. Don't break the law.

Wise words.

[Ants_Texas]

Getting the permit is a reach, I was able to get one that allows me to collect in GA and take to FL where I reside... The process to very lengthy.. I also have two in scientific review for Collecting in South Carolina and Alabama.  I am confident that they will get approved just have to wait...   TBH I have tried an failed many times to get the permits, it is a very strict process and though it is free to apply it is not free to comply.. the lab I had to construct to house my ants cost far more then what I had intended to pay... also the permits only cover one species per permit so i have to do the same process for a number of ants just to legally collect in GA and bring to FL....You have to be associated with an institution, for me it is the Florida State Collection of Arthropods and you have to have a Special Use Authorization to collect on any state or county owned property... all this takes so much time to do and you are at whim of the USDA... most of the interviews I did with them required a response that had 24 hr terms... they are sticklers and require photo proof of all the requirements and you have to let them inspect your holding facilities and you have to get your transportation process  approved....  very long road if you want to attempt this near impossible feat... In my honest opinion I would try to find an ant from your state that not many people have and focus on making the very best formicarium for it and doing a lot of vlogs and journals on them while you are still in Texas and look forward to who you can pass the colonies over to...... be looking ahead to Colorado and find the same situation of ant and do the same thing... keep yourself into the hobby and make the most of it ... Enjoy bud..  

 

Jamie

Very true, I might as well try. Chances are small though.

[Shareallicu]

He might have to release them tho tbh I say if it's also native in the new state then go ahead but if it's not then just release them in Texas. And you gotta drive over cause carrying ants on airplane is another mess.

Oh good thing you mentioned that!!  Ants_Texas should definitely drive!  I have never been in an airplane, so I sometimes forget they exist lol

[Shareallicu]

 

 

I would just take them.... who's going to care or even notice?   If going from one state to another is really that difficult, this country is in worse shape than I thought.   Just never release them, it should be fine.

Easy as that!
No worries do it! What he is saying

The chances of getting caught are indeed small. But it's never wise to advise someone to break the law.

 

But what's breaking the law?    If he never lets them go, that is all the law is really concerned about. 

[Shareallicu]

Come on guys, isn't it like, in the forum rules to not advise people to break the law? Also the USDA crawls over these boards looking for people breaking the law. It's not that hard to figure out real names of people. Please don't break the law, it's not a responsible thing to do and puts us other ant keepers who don't break them in bad light.

I moved from California to Wyoming and got rid of all of my colonies before I left since I didn't want to break any laws. It sucked to do, but it was worth it.  It's very easy to find ants up here, just start flipping rocks and logs and you'll find a ton of queens. So far I have one Myrmica and four Formica colonies, more than I had back in Cali. The thing about ant keeping is that it doesn't take long to start back up again if you have to get rid of them, you just go out and find a few queens or buy a couple from someone else and you're back in business. Finding queens is free and easy, dealing with the law for smuggling queen ants (which is a FELONY might I add) is neither of those things. Don't break the law

The law is to protect the native species right? 

 

I don't break the law, I translate it.

 

Never let the ants go.   The law to protect the native species (of ants and plants) is never broken.  I think this law makes sense!

 

But If Control is their law.... America is in bad shape, and I don't think it makes sense.

 

Obviously people can do what they want.  But if you never introduce the ants to the new state, where is the harm?  

 

I guess there could be accidental introduction...  I'll have to ponder this some more.

Edited by Shareallicu, July 18 2017 - 5:13 PM.

[cpman]

Come on guys, isn't it like, in the forum rules to not advise people to break the law? Also the USDA crawls over these boards looking for people breaking the law. It's not that hard to figure out real names of people. Please don't break the law, it's not a responsible thing to do and puts us other ant keepers who don't break them in bad light.
I moved from California to Wyoming and got rid of all of my colonies before I left since I didn't want to break any laws. It sucked to do, but it was worth it. It's very easy to find ants up here, just start flipping rocks and logs and you'll find a ton of queens. So far I have one Myrmica and four Formica colonies, more than I had back in Cali. The thing about ant keeping is that it doesn't take long to start back up again if you have to get rid of them, you just go out and find a few queens or buy a couple from someone else and you're back in business. Finding queens is free and easy, dealing with the law for smuggling queen ants (which is a FELONY might I add) is neither of those things. Don't break the law

The law is to protect the native species right?

I don't break the law, I translate it.

Never let the ants go. The law to protect the native species (of ants and plants) is never broken. I think this law makes sense!

But If Control is their law.... America is in bad shape, and I don't think it makes sense.

Obviously people can do what they want. But if you never introduce the ants to the new state, where is the harm?

I guess there could be accidental introduction... I'll have to ponder this some more.

It's not to protect native species. Ants are banned as part of a regulation on plant pests. The key thing about it is it's virtually impossible to assure there won't be accidental introductions of these species, which could be damaging to crops or the environment.

Part of the reason the permit is hard to get is because you need to prove there is no possibility of accidental introductions or escapes.

If you just let ants cross state borders without these sorts of regulations, the next thing you know, you could have something highly damaging, like Atta introduced to the highly agricultural parts of the Central Valley.

Sure, most people might be good and keep any escapes or introductions from occurring, but that's not everybody. What about the person who ships a young Atta colony from Texas, and isn't able to manage the mature one, so releases it? What about the person who decides they can't manage Solenopsis invicta and does the same?

The ants could also possibly transmit diseases that decimate natives.

It's just too risky.

Edited by cpman, July 18 2017 - 6:57 PM.