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What causes some queens not to shed their wings?


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11 replies to this topic

#1 Offline Aaron567 - Posted May 21 2017 - 3:08 PM

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So, this year so far, I've already caught many winged fertile queens that still have not taken their wings off. I have multiple winged Pheidole bicarinata queens, a winged Brachymyrmex patagonicus queen, and also a winged Odontomachus queen which I thought was infertile but has now laid an egg and is standing near it and taking care of it.

 

Last year, I only had two fertile queens that didn't shed their wings.

 

Does anyone know the reason for some queens not shedding their wings? A lot of the winged queens I have happened to be captured at a blacklight. 



#2 Offline Kevin - Posted May 21 2017 - 3:22 PM

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I don't specifically know why. but I know Crystal told me most queens caught by a blacklight don't shed their wings, as if they are mesmerized by it or something.


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#3 Offline VoidElecent - Posted May 21 2017 - 3:25 PM

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I've been wondering the same thing. Here's my theory:

 

After a female alate mates with a male, it usually spends some time looking around for a spot to dig a founding chamber. In this time (Could be 5 minutes, could be hours, and may even be days for some species), they shed their wings. If they happen to see a bright light in this time, like a blacklight, for example, they start to fly towards the light and are simply mesmerized by it. When they reach the light, they either sit next next to it and forget what they're supposed to be doing, or find a wall or pillar next to it, and try to get even closer. Soon enough, they'll have surpassed the time they would have used to begin digging a founding chamber, and their window of opportunity to shed their wings is over.

 

Then, when a curious anter (such as yourself) finds the queen and places her in a setup, she'll continue to lay eggs and start her colony just as she would have done if she had shed her wings; she's just pretty much forgotten she still had them on.

 

Other queens that you catch during flights, however, are still in that mindset that they've got to shed their wings; that's why when you catch winged, mated queens from nuptial flights, they eventually shed their wings in their tubes.

 

Unfertilized queens will simply never shed their wings because they aren't mated yet.


Edited by VoidElecent, May 21 2017 - 3:26 PM.


#4 Offline Kevin - Posted May 21 2017 - 4:13 PM

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Unfertilized queens will simply never shed their wings because they aren't mated yet.

 

On occasion, I believe extra alates are used as workers and shed their wings as act as a member of the colony, rather than the queen. Good theory though.


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#5 Offline Nathant2131 - Posted May 21 2017 - 4:14 PM

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Unfertilized queens will simply never shed their wings because they aren't mated yet.

 

On occasion, I believe extra alates are used as workers and shed their wings as act as a member of the colony, rather than the queen. Good theory though.

 

I also remember reading that any alate that has wandered from the colony, even if infertile, will instinctively shed it's wings. I might just be completely making that up though.



#6 Offline MichiganAnts - Posted June 8 2017 - 1:32 PM

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My buddy who owns Anttopia has a queen who hibernated and to this day still has her wings.. she has a nice sized colony aswell. My thought is that its just part of a checklist a queen goes through when setting up a founding chamber, and sometimes it won't get checked off till hours/days/months/ or never gets checked off. 


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#7 Offline AntsCalifornia - Posted September 9 2017 - 8:55 PM

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My personal experience is that when caught with a black light, queens are usually infertile or still have their wings. I went to work investigating why, and I think that I might have an answer. First, ever since getting into the anting business, I have heard about queens not shedding wings, and the fact that queens usually mate with multiple males. After the mating they make a chamber. I had a theory that if queens only mate with one or two males, they wouldn't shed their wings because they haven't met the requirement of males to mate with, but had enough sperm to lay eggs. Then the workers would tear them off because the queen wouldn't. I then assumed the reason for not shedding wings and multiple infertile queens is they take off from the nest, sense a black light, and fly towards it. By the time they get there, you catch it when they have mated with only 1 or even no males, and that was the reason. I put this to the test. After I got queens attracted, I waited until I saw that they shed their wings. I then caught them. It was so much more successful, and not a single queen was infertile. They all grew up much better than the other queens I caught, and now I catch only queens who have shed their wings, or that aren't constantly trying to fly again and look like they have mated. Afterwards, all queens are fertile and have shed their wings, so I believe the solution to your problem is to wait to catch your ant queens after finding them. The only exception I would make is if it was a rare queen.



#8 Offline Scrixx - Posted September 9 2017 - 10:30 PM

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I've been wondering the same thing. Here's my theory:

 

After a female alate mates with a male, it usually spends some time looking around for a spot to dig a founding chamber. In this time (Could be 5 minutes, could be hours, and may even be days for some species), they shed their wings. If they happen to see a bright light in this time, like a blacklight, for example, they start to fly towards the light and are simply mesmerized by it. When they reach the light, they either sit next next to it and forget what they're supposed to be doing, or find a wall or pillar next to it, and try to get even closer. Soon enough, they'll have surpassed the time they would have used to begin digging a founding chamber, and their window of opportunity to shed their wings is over.

 

Then, when a curious anter (such as yourself) finds the queen and places her in a setup, she'll continue to lay eggs and start her colony just as she would have done if she had shed her wings; she's just pretty much forgotten she still had them on.

 

Other queens that you catch during flights, however, are still in that mindset that they've got to shed their wings; that's why when you catch winged, mated queens from nuptial flights, they eventually shed their wings in their tubes.

 

Unfertilized queens will simply never shed their wings because they aren't mated yet.

 

Sounds like a good guess. I also believe that they have a certain time frame in which they shed their wings. Blacklights keeps them flying and distracted until that time frame is over.

 

I was out anting when a Pogonomyrmex rugosus flight happened. Witnessed several queens land and immediately remove their wings. The whole time collecting I only saw one winged queen digging a founding nest. That was a few hours later. That one winged queen may have been infertile.

 

Though I also think a few queens will just be different and just never remove their wings. Maybe a gene that tells them to take the wings off never turned on, or something else went wrong. With the amount of queens produced there's bound to be a abnormalities.

 

At the moment I have a queen Myrmecocystus mexicanus with one wing removed and one wing still attached. She's beautiful! I'm hoping she is successful but only time will tell.


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#9 Offline BMM - Posted September 10 2017 - 5:16 PM

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I spent a lot of time this summer observing the Tetramorium tsushimae colonies around my house and there were certainly some interesting trends I noticed.

 

During the nuptial flights, occasionally a queen would leave the colony already wingless and would start wandering around. I captured a few of these and they turned out to be fertile, although they're developing much more slowly than the queens I caught normally. I'm assuming they must have mated in the nest. For whatever reason, they shed their wings but still try to leave with the alates during a nuptial flight.

 

I also caught several queens that were floating in a bucket of water. So far most of them have not shed their wings. I think this is similar to the theory about lights. I think it interrupts their natural instincts and they forget to remove their wings. Incidentally, they have also developed quite slowly.


Edited by BMM, September 11 2017 - 8:37 AM.

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#10 Offline GeorgeK - Posted September 10 2017 - 11:58 PM

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Last year i had two L. Nigers queens, both caught with wings. The first one shed her wings when i placed her in test tube, and the other one kept her wings. After first nanitics arrived, they removed the wings of other queen. Hope this helps?



#11 Offline Lazarus - Posted September 29 2017 - 11:55 AM

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I also have a Lasius who just had a few nanitics appear the last few days and she still has her wings. I'll keep a close eye on her the next few days to see if the wings get removed. Is it even possible that she never removes them?


Edited by Lazarus, September 29 2017 - 11:55 AM.

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#12 Offline AntsCalifornia - Posted September 30 2017 - 9:10 PM

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I heard the workers remove the wings after a while. Mine has had workers and wings for 3 weeks.






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