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Dspdrew's Pogonomyrmex tenuispinus Journal [202] (Updated 6-9-2019)

pogonomyrmex tenuispinus journal dspdrew

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#1 Offline dspdrew - Posted September 27 2014 - 2:05 PM

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  • LocationSanta Ana, CA

9-27-2014
 
On 9-15-2014 Retroman gave me a few of these Pogonomyrmex tenuispinus queens after breeding them in captivity. They were all alates except one, but he said he actually watched them mate, so they should be fertile. In the first few days, a lot of them died unfortunately, until about a week later all that was left was the dealate.

 

At this point, the remaining dealate slowly started laying eggs. Today she is still alive and well, and has about 10 eggs. She also has a couple of her sisters with her to help get her colony started.

 

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#2 Offline Alza - Posted September 27 2014 - 2:18 PM

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this species gaster resembles that of barbatus, if you have ever bought them from online stores before. i will be hunting alot for this species



#3 Offline Gregory2455 - Posted September 27 2014 - 3:16 PM

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Where did the workers come from?  :thinking:

Boosted?



#4 Offline dspdrew - Posted September 27 2014 - 4:00 PM

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Where did the workers come from?  :thinking:

Boosted?

Haha! Oh yeah, I forgot to explain that part. Fixed.


this species gaster resembles that of barbatus, if you have ever bought them from online stores before. i will be hunting alot for this species

They are in the Barbatus subgenus, just like P. rugosus.



#5 Offline Gregory2455 - Posted September 27 2014 - 4:41 PM

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I like this species, definitely will try to get it next year.



#6 Offline Anhzor - Posted September 27 2014 - 5:36 PM

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I would try boosting them with rugosus pupae.



#7 Offline Gregory2455 - Posted September 27 2014 - 5:48 PM

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That would be interesting, there would be two different colored workers as in a parasitized nest.



#8 Offline dspdrew - Posted September 27 2014 - 5:51 PM

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I would try boosting them with rugosus pupaes.

Very good idea. I will do that.



#9 Offline Anhzor - Posted September 27 2014 - 10:38 PM

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Rugosus -  Barbatus hybrid exist in nature, they usually exhibit odd hybrid workers and single linage reproductive.


Edited by Anhzor, September 27 2014 - 10:38 PM.


#10 Offline Gregory2455 - Posted September 27 2014 - 11:57 PM

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Does this species have semi-clausteral queens? Or is all of the Pogonomyrmex (Barbatus-Group) spp. fully clausteral?



#11 Offline Retroman - Posted September 28 2014 - 8:43 AM

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I would not boost them with non species-specific relatives.

 

The queen already has some of the key elements she needs to be successful. She has food and the added assistance of her sisters. This species is very particular about temperature and humidity gradients as they occur on rocky/gravelly slopes in the Sonoran desert. If the brood does not develop through to adult workers, I would suspect possible inadequete temps and humidity gradients rather than not enough help.

 

I once tried boosting a P. rugosus queen with P. californicus callows'. They could not raise larvae beyond the early stage and the queen finally abandoned the nest to get away from the congeneric workers after a month. I put her alone back in the same enclosure (with seeds) and she successfully raised workers on her own. The various stages of the brood require certain temperature and humidity values and care and the needs of one species may not exactly overlap another in the same genus. Unless you just want to experiment, I think keeping like with like is probably the best approach. 


Edited by Retroman, September 28 2014 - 10:25 AM.


#12 Offline dspdrew - Posted September 28 2014 - 8:53 AM

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Does this species have semi-clausteral queens? Or is all of the Pogonomyrmex (Barbatus-Group) spp. fully clausteral?

Good question. I have never seen the species listed (I have only seen four specifically listed fully-claustral species), but it would make sense to me that they could be. Either way, I still feed my queens, semi-claustral or not.

 

I would not boost them with non species-specific relatives.

 

The queen already has some of the key elements she needs to be successful. She has food and the added assistance of her sisters. This species is very particular about temperature and humidity gradients as they occur on rocky/gravelly slopes in the Sonoran desert. If the brood does not develop through to adult workers, I would suspect possible inadequete temps and humidity gradients rather than not enough help.

 

I once tried boosting a P. rugosus queen with P. californicus callows'. They could not raise larvae beyond the early stage and the queen finally abandoned the nest to get away from the congeneric workers after a month. I put her alone back in the same enclosure (with seeds) and she successfully raised workers on her own. The various stages of the brood require certain temperate, humidity and care and the needs of one species may not exactly overlap another in the same genus. Unless you just want to experiment, I think keeping like with like is probably the best approach. 

I have never had luck mixing P. californicus or P. subnitidus with P. rugosus. I would think two species from the same subgenus would probably have a much better chance. I wouldn't mind experimenting, but I would rather wait until I have a more successful colony.



#13 Offline dspdrew - Posted October 2 2014 - 10:20 PM

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Updated 10-2-2014
 
It's starting to look like this queen is not fertile. Her eggs are very white in color, and have not changed in almost two weeks. One of my P. rugosus queens died, so I took the two pupae left behind and gave them to this little "colony". So far they seem to have adopted and are taking care of them.

 

@Retroman Did you start your newer colony from a captive bred queen?



#14 Offline Gregory2455 - Posted October 2 2014 - 10:27 PM

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Shame, such a great looking species.



#15 Offline Retroman - Posted October 3 2014 - 4:19 AM

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There are other reasons besides fertility that eggs won't hatch into larvae. They have to incubated by the queen and workers (when present) at specific temperatures and humidity. Some of the eggs may be trophic meaning they're intended to be used strictly as food for the developing larvae. I believe they are licked/groomed by adults and if the adults are from another species, the eggs/young larvae may not get all the exact care they need to survive. This species is not easy to keep because of the unique characteristics of their habitat and microenvironments in their nests. The best luck I've had was in large containers with native soil heated overhead providing a nice range of temperature and humidity gradients. I've been unsuccessful keeping them in small containers even with nearby heat and some moisture. One of the premier entomologists I've given them to has been challenged as well. If you have a large (15-20) gallan tank, you can better replicate a microenvironment that provides them with better temp/moisture gradients.



#16 Offline dspdrew - Posted October 3 2014 - 5:33 AM

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I've had some P. rugosus with eggs that did not hatch for a long time, but I'm pretty sure they were actually eating the eggs and laying new ones. The queen is hovering over the eggs all the time, so it looks like they are probably getting the care they need.



#17 Offline Tpro4 - Posted October 3 2014 - 5:46 AM

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How do you breed them in captivity @dspdrew?
Remember Dragon Warrior, anything is possible when you have inner peace. - Master Shifu

Current Queens:
1 Unknown Pogomyemex
1 Solenopsis Xyloni

#18 Offline dspdrew - Posted October 3 2014 - 6:33 AM

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Retroman is the one who has done it, so maybe he could tell you. Most likely you just need to replicate their environment, and the conditions that trigger a mating flight.



#19 Offline Gregory2455 - Posted October 3 2014 - 7:49 AM

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Yeah, how do you have them mate in captivity? I mean, what factors are needed?



#20 Offline dspdrew - Posted October 3 2014 - 10:17 AM

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Temperature, humidity, light cycles...







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