66 replies to this topic

[thosaka]

Let's be honest. We don't fully respect ants. In fact, having any ant in captivity doesn't seem right. If we truly respect ants, whether they die today or tomorrow, they should be left in the wild, with complete "freedom." Let's all not depict ourselves as this "pure" innocent human beings, who haven't committed a single crime, minor or large, or any acts associated with immorality. I brought this topic up because of some other posts mentioned about doing the "right" thing, and it aches me for someone to paint themselves and make others paint themselves something they are not deep inside.

[Tyrael]

Let's be honest. We don't fully respect dogs. In fact, having any dog in captivity doesn't seem right. If we truly respect dogs, whether they die today or tomorrow, they should be left in the wild, with complete "freedom." Let's all not depict ourselves as this "pure" innocent human beings, who haven't committed a single crime, minor or large, or any acts associated with immorality. I brought this topic up because of some other posts mentioned about doing the "right" thing, and it aches me for someone to paint themselves and make others paint themselves something they are not deep inside.

[Reacker]

Content removed by author. 

[Serafine]

Let's be honest. We don't fully respect cats. In fact, having any cat in captivity doesn't seem right. If we truly respect cats, whether they die today or tomorrow, they should be left in the wild, with complete "freedom." Let's all not depict ourselves as this "pure" innocent human beings, who haven't committed a single crime, minor or large, or any acts associated with immorality. I brought this topic up because of some other posts mentioned about doing the "right" thing, and it aches me for someone to paint themselves and make others paint themselves something they are not deep inside.

[AnthonyP163]

Let's be honest. We don't fully respect cows. In fact, having any cow in captivity doesn't seem right. If we truly respect cows, whether they die today or tomorrow, they should be left in the wild, with complete "freedom." Let's all not depict ourselves as this "pure" innocent human beings, who haven't committed a single crime, minor or large, or any acts associated with immorality. I brought this topic up because of some other posts mentioned about doing the "right" thing, and it aches me for someone to paint themselves and make others paint themselves something they are not deep inside.

[Martialis]

[T.C.]

Let's be honest. We don't fully respect dogs. In fact, having any dog in captivity doesn't seem right. If we truly respect dogs, whether they die today or tomorrow, they should be left in the wild, with complete "freedom." Let's all not depict ourselves as this "pure" innocent human beings, who haven't committed a single crime, minor or large, or any acts associated with immorality. I brought this topic up because of some other posts mentioned about doing the "right" thing, and it aches me for someone to paint themselves and make others paint themselves something they are not deep inside.

Not true. I treat my dog like a king. I can assure you its happier in my heated home than in the wild.

[thosaka]

Unfortunately, dogs have been domesticated to the point they need people. I am not sure if that same rule would apply with ants or ever will in the next decade or century. Wolves are another matter.

Edited by Tagassi, April 29 2017 - 4:25 PM.

[Serafine]

Unfortunately, dogs have been domesticated to the point they need people. I am not sure if that same rule would apply with ants or ever will in the next decade or century. Wolves are another matter.

Most dogs can definitely survive without humans, some of them are even smart enough to travel with the subway.

 

 

Also I caught 4 Solenopsis fugax queens out of abandoned spider nets. They would have died anyway, it's not like nature lost much. And what exactly was the success rate of ant queens again? Something around 95% don't even make it to nanitics, right?

Edited by Serafine, April 29 2017 - 4:39 PM.

[soulsynapse]

if we respect ants, queens have something like 2% survival rate on their own

 

but taking this seriously, I see too many people on here who carelessly or intentionally kill their ants, I feel like that's a much stronger argument to make.

[Formicarius]

For me there are 3 categories.

Species that thrive in captivity.

Species that just "survive" in captivity.

Species that are impossible to keep in captivity and will surely die.

 

There is nothing wrong with the 1st.

The second depends on your own sense of ethics.

The third is immoral.

 

EDIT: This applies to all animals btw not just Ants.

Edited by Formicarius, April 29 2017 - 5:02 PM.

[Canadian anter]

People for the Excessive Torturing of Animals

Edited by Canadian anter, April 29 2017 - 5:23 PM.

[thosaka]

Unfortunately, dogs have been domesticated to the point they need people. I am not sure if that same rule would apply with ants or ever will in the next decade or century. Wolves are another matter.

Most dogs can definitely survive without humans, some of them are even smart enough to travel with the subway.
 
 
Also I caught 4 Solenopsis fugax queens out of abandoned spider nets. They would have died anyway, it's not like nature lost much. And what exactly was the success rate of ant queens again? Something around 95% don't even make it to nanitics, right?

Yeah, anybody with a common sense knows a dog can survive, but in what terrible condition or in what state of health. There is a reason we labeled dog as "domesticated." Let us not be anal, you should know better, in general, dogs rely on humans for everything.

Also didn't I mention about ants dying today or tomorrow? I think we just love to make excuses for our own entertainment sakes. Just stop sugarcoating yourself with excuses, and own it.

[Alabama Anter]

Let's be honest. We don't fully need this post.... Why is this even in general xD

[MrPurpleB]

This one was an interesting topic. This entirely all depends on a person's morals. Just as a disclaimer I am neither justifying or condemning the practice of keeping ants or other animals as pets.

 

Edited by MrPurpleB, April 29 2017 - 6:36 PM.

[ctantkeeper]

Ok, let's be rational a break this down. Colonies of most species release alates "en masse" in large quantities (This occurs during the ant's nuptial flight.). At the end of this massive event, most of these newly gravid queens meet their ends in a whole variety of morbid and grotesque ways (endoparasites, exoparasites, bacterial infection, contamination via mold and other fungi, drowning, dehydration, being cannibalized upon as well as being fed on by a wide variety of different organisms, which aids in supporting the health of native fauna.). To say that "some" of these queens die during these events is a gross understatement. It has been noted before that roughly only 1 out of every 100 newly mated queens makes it past the first 2 years of colony founding. By collecting queens, we are not damaging the local ecology as some might think. Collecting a colony on the other hand is a bit more destructive, as it removes a reproductively active "individual" (ei, the colony or "super organism") from passing along its own genes and from keeping other ants and invertebrates in check, disturbing the local flora and fauna. However, by practicing responsible collection habits, most of this kind of damage can be avoided altogether.  By repairing structures and the surrounding environments after excavation is complete and by only taking small collecting samples from one area before moving along to the next, you can insure the continuation of a healthy ecosystem in one area or several with few major consequences resulting from this.

[brian]

I like ants.

[thosaka]

Ok, let's be rational a break this down. Colonies of most species release alates "en masse" in large quantities (This occurs during the ant's nuptial flight.). At the end of this massive event, most of these newly gravid queens meet their ends in a whole variety of morbid and grotesque ways (endoparasites, exoparasites, bacterial infection, contamination via mold and other fungi, drowning, dehydration, being cannibalized upon as well as being fed on by a wide variety of different organisms, which aids in supporting the health of native fauna.). To say that "some" of these queens die during these events is a gross understatement. It has been noted before that roughly only 1 out of every 100 newly mated queens makes it past the first 2 years of colony founding. By collecting queens, we are not damaging the local ecology as some might think. Collecting a colony on the other hand is a bit more destructive, as it removes a reproductively active "individual" (ei, the colony or "super organism") from passing along its own genes and from keeping other ants and invertebrates in check, disturbing the local flora and fauna. However, by practicing responsible collection habits, most of this kind of damage can be avoided altogether. By repairing structures and the surrounding environments after excavation is complete and by only taking small collecting samples from one area before moving along to the next, you can insure the continuation of a healthy ecosystem in one area or several with few major consequences resulting from this.

1 out of 100. Let's just hope we didn't take that single one that could have survived. Either way, I doubt the ants asked us to take them into captivity, and the phrase, "Let nature take its course" comes to my mind. This topic is not about convincing people not to collect ants, but to change the way people think about themselves and not try to manipulate others and justify their own actions for their own amusement, and to simply just own it. Don't be a "robin hood," stealing from the rich to give to the poor. It just doesn't fly. Let's just say your queen is William Wallace in "Braveheart."

Edited by Tagassi, April 29 2017 - 10:56 PM.

[Mdrogun]

Let's be honest. We don't fully respect dogs. In fact, having any dog in captivity doesn't seem right. If we truly respect dogs, whether they die today or tomorrow, they should be left in the wild, with complete "freedom." Let's all not depict ourselves as this "pure" innocent human beings, who haven't committed a single crime, minor or large, or any acts associated with immorality. I brought this topic up because of some other posts mentioned about doing the "right" thing, and it aches me for someone to paint themselves and make others paint themselves something they are not deep inside.

 

Let's be honest. We don't fully respect cats. In fact, having any cat in captivity doesn't seem right. If we truly respect cats, whether they die today or tomorrow, they should be left in the wild, with complete "freedom." Let's all not depict ourselves as this "pure" innocent human beings, who haven't committed a single crime, minor or large, or any acts associated with immorality. I brought this topic up because of some other posts mentioned about doing the "right" thing, and it aches me for someone to paint themselves and make others paint themselves something they are not deep inside.

 

 

Let's be honest. We don't fully respect cows. In fact, having any cow in captivity doesn't seem right. If we truly respect cows, whether they die today or tomorrow, they should be left in the wild, with complete "freedom." Let's all not depict ourselves as this "pure" innocent human beings, who haven't committed a single crime, minor or large, or any acts associated with immorality. I brought this topic up because of some other posts mentioned about doing the "right" thing, and it aches me for someone to paint themselves and make others paint themselves something they are not deep inside.

 

 

 

All of these animals are domesticated. It would be a completely different scenario if you were trying to keep a pet tiger. Even so, I don't really see how you can compare a warm blooded mammal to small social insects. As long as the animal is properly cared for and healthy, I don't see the problem.

 

 

Let's be honest. We don't fully respect ants. In fact, having any ant in captivity doesn't seem right. If we truly respect ants, whether they die today or tomorrow, they should be left in the wild, with complete "freedom." Let's all not depict ourselves as this "pure" innocent human beings, who haven't committed a single crime, minor or large, or any acts associated with immorality. I brought this topic up because of some other posts mentioned about doing the "right" thing, and it aches me for someone to paint themselves and make others paint themselves something they are not deep inside.

Ants can't comprehend their captivity. According to Wikepedia.com, "With the exception of some cephalopods, invertebrate species are not protected under most animal research legislation" and there is a very good reason for this. Almost all invertebrates lack higher thinking skills and act entirely on instinct. In fact, I would argue it is MUCH better in captivity for ants than in the wild as long as they are cared for properly. In the wild, the survival rate of ants is abysmally low and death is always looming close by, but in captivity, you make the survival rate as high as possible and give the ants everything they could ever need, thus highly improving their quality of life, although, ants have no concept of "quality of life".

[Leo]

Let's be honest. We don't fully respect ants. In fact, having any ant in captivity doesn't seem right. If we truly respect ants, whether they die today or tomorrow, they should be left in the wild, with complete "freedom." Let's all not depict ourselves as this "pure" innocent human beings, who haven't committed a single crime, minor or large, or any acts associated with immorality. I brought this topic up because of some other posts mentioned about doing the "right" thing, and it aches me for someone to paint themselves and make others paint themselves something they are not deep inside.so 

so you are telling us to release our ants?

Edited by Leo, April 30 2017 - 12:25 AM.