44 replies to this topic

[ctantkeeper]

 

 The "collective swarm intelligence" of the antkeeping community has pretty much the same opinion on this matter.

 

 

 

Not sure I would use the word "intelligence" to describe the collective swarm of ant keepers. 

 

are you saying that were stupid or something lol. 

[Connectimyrmex]

 

 The "collective swarm intelligence" of the antkeeping community has pretty much the same opinion on this matter.

 

 

 

Not sure I would use the word "intelligence" to describe the collective swarm of ant keepers. 

 

Reacker, master of comedy.

[Kaelwizard]

Are Eciton included in this family of ants?

[PurdueEntomology]

Kaelwizard, if you are speaking of the initial post then yes.  

[PurdueEntomology]

After having kept a colony of Neivamyrmex I would agree that leaving the army ants alone is best.  Though I believe I had a good track record with the colony, learned much of their behavior etc, overall it is best just to leave them alone.   There are many fascinating genera of ants that many of us are just not trying to keep, such as Proceratium and Stenamma which in their own are interesting genera. 

[Leo]

I collect some every once in a while. nothing serious to the environment. yet.

[gcsnelling]

Nothing wrong with collecting worker specimens as long as you leave the queen alone.

[Kaelwizard]

Purdue, are you saying it is bad to keep Proceratium and Stenamma also? I have thought of collecting both before so I want to know.

[PurdueEntomology]

Kaelwizard, no just the opposite, these are two genera I believe are interesting and save for the spider egg diet of most Proceratium, which may not be something everyone can have easy access, that keeping them has factors that are just a commendable as any of other genera fellow myrmeculturalists on this forum are to degrees of success and failure doing.  There are certain popular, easily accessible, and relatively culture-wise uncomplicated and undemanding genera and species being kept, this forum is a testimony to that fact, but there are many, many genera and species which either due to cryptic habits, difficulty in being found or infrequency of being found are not currently in the roster of cultured species.  Whoever seeks to work with these less common genera and species needs to be well read on either the genus or species specifically and have had some successful experiences in culturing some of the easier and more popular ones before tackling genera and species of which there is little to no culture techniques, successes and failures, from which to base well informed  initial culture habits and techniques from the get go.  These are living complex animals we are taking as a trust, and one of the worst of character traits is the failure to keep a trust.  Perhaps when I kept the Neivamyrmex nigrescens colony there was a bit of vanity in that, I will not deny that, but there was also overwhelmingly an earnest and dedicated effort to take the task I put into my hands and try my best to make it successful.  Some may say 'It was doomed from the the get go' and I can only respond that had I not endeavored I would not have known nor learned so much.  I know with greater conviction that this 'hobby' is no mere hobby but requires hard science, dedication to details, a responsible mindset and honesty at the end of the day to know when to quit if necessary, that is, if one is not capable of housing a species properly i.e., it is flourishing and healthy, then it needs to be released [if it is endemic to ones area].  

[Kaelwizard]

Ok! You must be very smart. 

[MegaMyrmex]

I just skimmed through this so forgive me if I make any mistakes but in my personal opinion, I find that we seem to ignore something until it’s completely gone. I do agree that army ants should not be kept and should be left to the most experienced researchers or scientists, but even then I am a bit iffy on keeping them, like the arapaima or the payara. They travel a lot, reauire copious amounts of food, and reqiure ample space and reach numbers that would far surpass any antkeeper’s preferance. However, with the increase in the destruction of wildlife and nature, I feel that some efforts should be made to protect them. For example, the Simondoan cave cockroach’s wild popultion was completely wiped out after its only known location(a cave in Guinea) was blown up to mine for bauxite. The only reason why this species is far from extinct is because of hobbyists and researchers who held onto the cockroach. I’m not implying thag we should collect them all right now but we should have some sort of backup plan in case their surivival is placed in serious jeopardy.

[ponerinecat]

Are clonal army ants included? They have been kept very successfully. Or does this post only apply to the more popular and commonly seen dorylines.

Edited by ponerinecat, December 1 2018 - 9:34 PM.

[Reacker]

 

 

 The "collective swarm intelligence" of the antkeeping community has pretty much the same opinion on this matter.

 

 

 

Not sure I would use the word "intelligence" to describe the collective swarm of ant keepers. 

 

are you saying that were stupid or something lol. 

 

Yes, on average. Mostly because the majority of ant keepers in the English language are children and most children are dumb compared to most adults. But also like any hobby it attracts its share of dumb people. Interestingly though it doesn't seem to attract an equal share of smart people. I suspect that most smart people who are sufficiently interested in ants to be involved as an adult just go fully into the sciences and you never hear from them if you're not part of the scientific community. There are some obvious exceptions but it's an interesting phenomenon. The adults that the hobby does seem to attract appear to have few resources. You see some hobbies like aquarium keeping and there are many thousands of dollars dedicated to just one or a few setups. In the anting community people have seizure if you even think about charging more than 25 dollars for just about anything and even that will enrage a substantial amount of people. I don't understand why this is. Based on the journals and setups I've seen in other language forums they don't seem to have the same dynamic occurring. I would be interested in knowing why if anyone has a reasonable explanation.

Edited by Reacker, December 1 2018 - 10:49 PM.

[FSTP]

 

 

 

 The "collective swarm intelligence" of the antkeeping community has pretty much the same opinion on this matter.

 

 

 

Not sure I would use the word "intelligence" to describe the collective swarm of ant keepers. 

 

are you saying that were stupid or something lol. 

 

Yes, on average. Mostly because the majority of ant keepers in the English language are children and most children are dumb compared to most adults. But also like any hobby it attracts its share of dumb people. Interestingly though it doesn't seem to attract an equal share of smart people. I suspect that most smart people who are sufficiently interested in ants to be involved as an adult just go fully into the sciences and you never hear from them if you're not part of the scientific community. There are some obvious exceptions but it's an interesting phenomenon. The adults that the hobby does seem to attract appear to have few resources. You see some hobbies like aquarium keeping and there are many thousands of dollars dedicated to just one or a few setups. In the anting community people have seizure if you even think about charging more than 25 dollars for just about anything and even that will enrage a substantial amount of people. I don't understand why this is. Based on the journals and setups I've seen in other language forums they don't seem to have the same dynamic occurring. I would be interested in knowing why if anyone has a reasonable explanation.

 

 

 

 

 

I agree. Coming into this hobby I didn't expect it to be so friendly on the wallet. So, I understand what you're getting at. When I had a SPS Reef tank I was spending 900 bux amonth on just maintenance and utilities. That didn't include the 12-1500 bux a month I was spending on livestock for the first year and a half to two. I think where this mentality comes from is from the thought that "they're just ants!!!!". I'll go back to the reef tank again. People in that hobby have no issue having a $5000 setup just to keep and suppot a small school of blue/green chromis that cost no more then 100 bux.  But in the anting community, I can see a pernicious attitude cropping up where people are thinking "why am I going to spend so much money on some ant I just found, just for it to die?" or perhaps some do not take it seriously because again "they're just ants what the big deal?". 

 

Well for me they're not "just ants". I have the same respect and attitude I did about my reef tank when it comes to ants, and I take them serious quite serious. Also I don't think people realize how much patience and long term effort there is when it comes to keeping ants. These ant queens can live for years and years if tended to properly. If all the persons perceptions on ant keep have been shaped by an Uncle Milton's experience they had when they were a youth, that's going to contribute to them thinking that ant keeping is just a short lived short term hobby. Not something to invest considerable money and time on.       

Edited by FSTP, December 2 2018 - 2:41 AM.

[Leo]

Are clonal army ants included? They have been kept very successfully. Or does this post only apply to the more popular and commonly seen dorylines.

I don't think they count, I keep some and everyone seems fine with it.

[GeorgeK]

Yes, on average. Mostly because the majority of ant keepers in the English language are children and most children are dumb compared to most adults. But also like any hobby it attracts its share of dumb people. Interestingly though it doesn't seem to attract an equal share of smart people. I suspect that most smart people who are sufficiently interested in ants to be involved as an adult just go fully into the sciences and you never hear from them if you're not part of the scientific community. There are some obvious exceptions but it's an interesting phenomenon. The adults that the hobby does seem to attract appear to have few resources. You see some hobbies like aquarium keeping and there are many thousands of dollars dedicated to just one or a few setups. In the anting community people have seizure if you even think about charging more than 25 dollars for just about anything and even that will enrage a substantial amount of people. I don't understand why this is. Based on the journals and setups I've seen in other language forums they don't seem to have the same dynamic occurring. I would be interested in knowing why if anyone has a reasonable explanation.

 

I think it has to do with exposure to hobby. So far I noticed that in our balkan antkeeping group people are either biologists, or just hobbyist who are eager to learn as much as they can about local species. Also, unlike in most of other european countries, I never once heard of anyone having any species that isn't native to his respective country.

[Kalidas]

Weird how this thread went from "is it okay to keep army ants?" To "The average ant keeper is dumb", also a comment about that whole "the average kid is dumber then an adult" as a preschool teacher I would say the average kid is more ignorant then the average adult ignornace and intelligence isn't the same thing.

[gcsnelling]

Weird how this thread went from "is it okay to keep army ants?" To "The average ant keeper is dumb", also a comment about that whole "the average kid is dumber then an adult" as a preschool teacher I would say the average kid is more ignorant then the average adult ignornace and intelligence isn't the same thing.

I totally agree with the dumb vs ignorance statement. Having said that I would have to say that the avg human being is far dumber than most bricks I have met, and with all the ant keepers wanting to ship non native or exotic species to places they shouldn't I see little reason to change that opinion.Don't get me wrong I have met plenty of well educated that are dumber than mushrooms and plenty of uneducated folks that are some of the smartest folks I have ever met.

[ponerinecat]

Can someone specify the definition of "army ants"? Some dorylinae don't seem to be much more difficult than, say, some amblyoponinae. At least three genuses have been kept successfully too. And are we including nomadic ponerinae like leptogenys?

[gcsnelling]

Although the definition seems to be rather broad these days, in my opinion however it the term should be strictly applied to the Dorylinae.. What three genera have been kept successfully long term?