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Edit: Tentative c. ocreatus. Black star canyon road, southern california


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#1 Offline soulsynapse - Posted April 22 2017 - 12:03 AM

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I really want a queen of this species but I guess the best starting point is figuring out what species it is

 

 

 

 

 

Nests were in oak trees and inbetween rocks with decaying leaf litter in it. I didn't see a single nest in the ground of maybe 10 nests spotted.

 

Found foraging only well after dark, around 8:30. Workers didn't follow paths, they just kinda wandered. 

 


Edited by soulsynapse, April 22 2017 - 1:15 PM.

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#2 Offline Subverted - Posted April 22 2017 - 12:15 AM

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Camponotus ocreatus ...we are pretty sure.


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#3 Offline gcsnelling - Posted April 22 2017 - 2:49 AM

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That is far darker than any C. ocreatus I have ever seen, however not impossible I guess. Esp since I am one to tell you all never, ever trust color for Ids.


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#4 Offline dspdrew - Posted April 22 2017 - 4:29 AM

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I Honestly have no idea what this species is. I always thought it was possibly C. ocreatus, and that's what I've been calling it, but there's always been a few things that don't match up, particularily the antennal scapes. They are definitely by far the largest Camponotus I've ever seen, and clearly are not C. vicinus, or what we have been calling C. sansabeanus. Subverted and I are fairly confident we found a few queens of this species last year in Trabuco Canyon, but unfortunately none of them ever started a colony. While I was out black lighting last night, I'm pretty sure I found some males of this species, as they are the largest Camponotus males I've ever seen.



#5 Offline nurbs - Posted April 22 2017 - 7:11 AM

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They all live in or at the base of trees with rocks? And you did not find any on the ground without any trees?

 

Gordon - aren't most C. ocreatus ground dwelling?

 

EDIT:

 

Did you find them simply foraging around the Oak or did you see them peeking their head out from within the hollow branches of an Oak? I have seen C. vicinus foraging up and down trees but their nests are usually at the base of the tree under rocks. C. sansabeanus  are all ground dwelling and nest deep in the soil, usually away from trees. 

 

The only other species that live in Oak trees are C. quercicola, and this is not.


Edited by nurbs, April 22 2017 - 7:36 AM.

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Unidentified Myrmecocystus

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https://www.formicul...mp-ca-5-4-2017/

 

Camponotus or Colobopsis yogi:

https://www.formicul...a-ca-1-28-2018/

 
Camponotus us-ca02
https://www.formicul...onotus-us-ca02/

 

Unidentified Formica

https://www.formicul...l-ca-6-27-2020/

 
Pencil Case and Test Tube Formicariums
https://www.formicul...m-and-outworld/
 
Bloodworm Soup
https://www.formicul...bloodworm-soup/


#6 Offline dspdrew - Posted April 22 2017 - 9:51 AM

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I didn't notice soulsynapse said that. I have never seen these nesting in trees. The only large Camponotus around here that nest in living trees that I know of is C. quercicola. All the nests of these I have seen have been in the ground or in cracks in large rocks, usually some place hidden. I've never seen a nest entrance out in the open. They usually wait until it is completely dark out before coming out, and then start streaming out of their nest through the bushes and onto roads or open areas where they forage in small groups.



#7 Offline Subverted - Posted April 22 2017 - 9:53 AM

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Here is a photo of the head/mandible on a nearly 2cm body length major:

 

 

And here is a profile shot:

 

 

I have only ever seen the nest openings between large rocks.


My ants | My free feeder design | PM or email me if you need and 3d printing, cnc machining, or manufacturing done: http://www.lrmachining.com

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#8 Offline soulsynapse - Posted April 22 2017 - 10:58 AM

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Okay, full information of the trip:

 

These nests were maybe 2? miles into the trail. I spent 3 hours on the trail last night trying to locate a queen, from 8:30 to 11:30

 

I saw a few foraging on bare ground, but they were very few. Most were out foraging on large rocks or in oak trees.

 

Of the colonies I saw:

 

2 nests were high up (15 feet or so) in oak trees, I could tell by a congregation of 20+ workers around the entrance

 

5+ had workers climbing all over the oak trees but I could not locate the nest entrance

 

1 nest was in a crack at the base of the oak tree

 

6 or more were on very large rocks that were underneath or close to oak trees but worker density was decidedly higher on the rocks than the trees they were by

 

The nests I were able to locate and see properly had entrances composed of decaying leaf litter. I also saw many workers dragging dead leaves and arranging dead leaves to the entrance. Given this, I suspect this species wants decaying oak leaves and a crack in something to build their nests.

 

TO GET TO EXACTLY WHERE i WAS:

 

I suggest bringing a mountain bike as it's far into the trail and on the way there there isn't much interesting. Follow the trail until you notice the electrical warning signs on the left, continue until you get to a bridge where the warning signs stop. The bridge crosses over the stream. Immediately after the bridge, on the right side there will be big boulders and many oak trees. You can find a couple of nests a bit before the bridge, but a majority are after the bridge. Once elevation on the trail starts going too high the nests become very uncommon.

 

also it's spooky as all get out on that trail alone so if anybody would like to go searching for queens of this species with me I'm open to driving anywhere on weekends.


Edited by soulsynapse, April 22 2017 - 10:59 AM.

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#9 Offline nurbs - Posted April 22 2017 - 12:22 PM

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2 nests were high up (15 feet or so) in oak trees, I could tell by a congregation of 20+ workers around the entrance

 

5+ had workers climbing all over the oak trees but I could not locate the nest entrance

 

1 nest was in a crack at the base of the oak tree

 

 

 

also it's spooky as all get out on that trail alone so if anybody would like to go searching for queens of this species with me I'm open to driving anywhere on weekends.

 

Wondering if the congregation of workers were around a food source? The fact you found these living in an Oak tree is highly interesting, given these clearly aren't C. quercicola, the only known Camponotus species in CA to live in Oak.

 

You and Drew are the same. He always asks me to hold his hand and tag along with him at night - because spooky Werewolves.

 

But on a serious note, would like to check them out!


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California Ants for Sale

 

Unidentified Myrmecocystus

https://www.formicul...ls-near-desert/

 

Undescribed "Modoc"

https://www.formicul...mp-ca-5-4-2017/

 

Camponotus or Colobopsis yogi:

https://www.formicul...a-ca-1-28-2018/

 
Camponotus us-ca02
https://www.formicul...onotus-us-ca02/

 

Unidentified Formica

https://www.formicul...l-ca-6-27-2020/

 
Pencil Case and Test Tube Formicariums
https://www.formicul...m-and-outworld/
 
Bloodworm Soup
https://www.formicul...bloodworm-soup/


#10 Offline gcsnelling - Posted April 22 2017 - 12:43 PM

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I have only ever seen C. ocreatus under rocks. OMG,an ant stuck on a pin??


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#11 Offline soulsynapse - Posted April 22 2017 - 12:50 PM

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Wondering if the congregation of workers were around a food source? The fact you found these living in an Oak tree is highly interesting, given these clearly aren't C. quercicola, the only known Camponotus species in CA to live in Oak.

 

 

 

Both times I went out I saw one colony in particular in the exact same spot so it was almost certainly a nest


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#12 Offline Subverted - Posted April 22 2017 - 1:04 PM

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I have only ever seen C. ocreatus under rocks. OMG,an ant stuck on a pin??

 

These are big enough to warrant a pin! I don't have any points that big haha

 

Aside from the color does everything check out for C. ocreatus? I thought it did but I would trust your opinion over my own.


My ants | My free feeder design | PM or email me if you need and 3d printing, cnc machining, or manufacturing done: http://www.lrmachining.com

Make your own mold/fungus/bacteria resistant test tube water! Don't get ripped off! Read my simple guide: http://www.formicult...-simple-how-to/

"Self-education is, I firmly believe, the only kind of education there is." - Isaac Asimov


#13 Offline dspdrew - Posted April 22 2017 - 1:11 PM

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:lol: I don't think nurbs understands the dangers of mountain lions. It wasn't until he came across a massive rattlesnake last month that he stopped stomping through knee-high brush and bought himself some rattlesnake boots like mine.

 

 

 

@soulsynapse

If you're seeing them coming out of nests in Oak Trees, then I think you're seeing something different than the species I'm talking about.


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#14 Offline gcsnelling - Posted April 22 2017 - 1:39 PM

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No proper size points? That is why they make scissors. Quick run thru the key I have brings it to C. vicinus however keep in mind this is based on the photographs which do not make it easy to see everything.


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#15 Offline soulsynapse - Posted April 22 2017 - 1:54 PM

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If you don't mind me asking where can I find ant keys?


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#16 Offline dspdrew - Posted April 22 2017 - 2:14 PM

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If you don't mind me asking where can I find ant keys?

 

Here's one that I cleaned up. I also removed anything that doesn't apply to the Southwestern US.

http://www.formicult...ates-southwest/

 

 

This is the largest major I ever found.

 

gallery_2_85_85770.jpg

 

 

Here are some higher resolution pictures I took... before I had Helicon Focus, unfortunately. Funny thing is I too actually pinned the ant itself at the time.

 

gallery_2_168_50449.jpg

 

gallery_2_168_41025.jpg

 

gallery_2_168_54948.jpg



#17 Offline nurbs - Posted April 22 2017 - 2:23 PM

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:lol: I don't think nurbs understands the dangers of mountain lions. It wasn't until he came across a massive rattlesnake last month that he stopped stomping through knee-high brush and bought himself some rattlesnake boots like mine.

 

 

 

@soulsynapse

If you're seeing them coming out of nests in Oak Trees, then I think you're seeing something different than the species I'm talking about.

 

:D  :D


Instagram:
nurbsants
 
YouTube
 
California Ants for Sale

 

Unidentified Myrmecocystus

https://www.formicul...ls-near-desert/

 

Undescribed "Modoc"

https://www.formicul...mp-ca-5-4-2017/

 

Camponotus or Colobopsis yogi:

https://www.formicul...a-ca-1-28-2018/

 
Camponotus us-ca02
https://www.formicul...onotus-us-ca02/

 

Unidentified Formica

https://www.formicul...l-ca-6-27-2020/

 
Pencil Case and Test Tube Formicariums
https://www.formicul...m-and-outworld/
 
Bloodworm Soup
https://www.formicul...bloodworm-soup/


#18 Offline nurbs - Posted April 22 2017 - 2:25 PM

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:lol: I don't think nurbs understands the dangers of mountain lions. It wasn't until he came across a massive rattlesnake last month that he stopped stomping through knee-high brush and bought himself some rattlesnake boots like mine.

 

 

 

@soulsynapse

If you're seeing them coming out of nests in Oak Trees, then I think you're seeing something different than the species I'm talking about.

 

:D  :D

 

 

It was a baby rattler.


Instagram:
nurbsants
 
YouTube
 
California Ants for Sale

 

Unidentified Myrmecocystus

https://www.formicul...ls-near-desert/

 

Undescribed "Modoc"

https://www.formicul...mp-ca-5-4-2017/

 

Camponotus or Colobopsis yogi:

https://www.formicul...a-ca-1-28-2018/

 
Camponotus us-ca02
https://www.formicul...onotus-us-ca02/

 

Unidentified Formica

https://www.formicul...l-ca-6-27-2020/

 
Pencil Case and Test Tube Formicariums
https://www.formicul...m-and-outworld/
 
Bloodworm Soup
https://www.formicul...bloodworm-soup/


#19 Offline dspdrew - Posted April 22 2017 - 2:26 PM

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:lol: I don't think nurbs understands the dangers of mountain lions. It wasn't until he came across a massive rattlesnake last month that he stopped stomping through knee-high brush and bought himself some rattlesnake boots like mine.

 

 

 

@soulsynapse

If you're seeing them coming out of nests in Oak Trees, then I think you're seeing something different than the species I'm talking about.

 

:D  :D

 

 

It was a baby rattler.

 

 

Those I think are actually more dangerous.



#20 Offline nurbs - Posted April 22 2017 - 2:58 PM

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:lol: I don't think nurbs understands the dangers of mountain lions. It wasn't until he came across a massive rattlesnake last month that he stopped stomping through knee-high brush and bought himself some rattlesnake boots like mine.

 

 

 

@soulsynapse

If you're seeing them coming out of nests in Oak Trees, then I think you're seeing something different than the species I'm talking about.

 

:D  :D

 

 

It was a baby rattler.

 

 

Those I think are actually more dangerous.

 

 

Yes


Instagram:
nurbsants
 
YouTube
 
California Ants for Sale

 

Unidentified Myrmecocystus

https://www.formicul...ls-near-desert/

 

Undescribed "Modoc"

https://www.formicul...mp-ca-5-4-2017/

 

Camponotus or Colobopsis yogi:

https://www.formicul...a-ca-1-28-2018/

 
Camponotus us-ca02
https://www.formicul...onotus-us-ca02/

 

Unidentified Formica

https://www.formicul...l-ca-6-27-2020/

 
Pencil Case and Test Tube Formicariums
https://www.formicul...m-and-outworld/
 
Bloodworm Soup
https://www.formicul...bloodworm-soup/





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