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Shipping queens is unethical.


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53 replies to this topic

#41 Offline Martialis - Posted April 1 2017 - 4:53 AM

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The European ecosystem is [censored] anyway. We didn't just eradicate any natural predators to a degree that we NEED to control wildlife population via hunting, we also introduced hundreds of exotic species and they um up to a level that exotic ants can barely make it worse than it already is.

 

 

You want a clean, preserved European ecosystem?

Good, first step, all parrots, parakeets and guinea pigs must be banned. If you want a bird as pet, just raise a sparrow or a crow.

Next, get used to wolves and bears which are slowly coming back after we stopped killing every single one trespassing central european ground.

 

Then we need to kill all the exotics we already have here. While raccoons and Nutrias might be difficult to kill off, it shouldn't be too hard to blast all those grey parrots out of the skies of Worms. Killing the Nandus in northern Germany shouldn't be too hard either. Chinese ducks are most likely easy targets as well. And there needs a massive eradication campaign against those parakeets all over Europe (including the northern UK).

Oh, and of course the american mustangs must die as well cause these horses are clearly not native to the american continent.

 

And don't even get me started on EXOTIC PLANTS IN EVERY DAMN GARDEN. We need to get flamethrowers and lay waste to pretty much every single village garden before these plants make the jump over the fence (which they are already starting to do in rapidly increasing numbers).

 

 

Oh, and good luck purging the european rivers and sees from exotics. That train departed decades ago.

bXkuHWQ.jpg

 

 

 

History and science show what foreign/invasive species can do.

History and science have also shown that PRETTY MUCH EVERY SINGLE EXOTIC SPECIES has either been INTRODUCED VIA TRADING GOODS (mostly smaller mobile animals like insects, rodents, snakes) or where WILLINGLY IMPORTED BY GOVERNMENTS (mostly the lesser mobile species like cane toads in Australia, great nil persh to the Victoria sea, horses to pretty much every place where they exist)

 

Oh, and did I mention that pretty much every single agricultural plant is an exotic species?

 

So just because it's injured we should issue the final blow?


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#42 Offline Serafine - Posted April 1 2017 - 5:07 AM

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Do you REALLY think humanity has the power to kill off nature? :shout:

 

The only thing we can do is to change our environment to a state where it doesn't support our own species anymore - which is why, in the last consequence, all environment preservation attempts are selfish because they try to preserve a world that fits our needs (someone should tell the current US government they obviously don't know).

 

We can't "deliver the final blow" to nature - life on this planet has survived far worse things than we could ever do it.


Edited by Serafine, April 1 2017 - 5:08 AM.

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#43 Offline Martialis - Posted April 1 2017 - 5:40 AM

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Do you REALLY think humanity has the power to kill off nature? :shout:

 

The only thing we can do is to change our environment to a state where it doesn't support our own species anymore - which is why, in the last consequence, all environment preservation attempts are selfish because they try to preserve a world that fits our needs (someone should tell the current US government they obviously don't know).

 

We can't "deliver the final blow" to nature - life on this planet has survived far worse things than we could ever do it.

 

Do you REALLY think humanity has the power to kill off nature? :shout:

 

The only thing we can do is to change our environment to a state where it doesn't support our own species anymore - which is why, in the last consequence, all environment preservation attempts are selfish because they try to preserve a world that fits our needs (someone should tell the current US government they obviously don't know).

 

We can't "deliver the final blow" to nature - life on this planet has survived far worse things than we could ever do it.

Obviously. I was talking about the climate in Europe. You think that just because humanity was irresponsible with the ecology of Europe that it should just have no regulations.

 

Oh, and by the way, just because Trump isn't making companies play an extra 10 million on frivolous requirements  doesn't mean he doesn't care about our climate. Oh, and here's the Christmas card of Ryan Zinke, just for you. :)

 

Also, basically water vapor is all that is left in the "fumes" put out by factories.

CzvNp2RXEAMbbFR.jpg


Edited by Martialis, April 1 2017 - 7:08 AM.

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#44 Offline Vanko - Posted April 1 2017 - 6:45 AM

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@Socalfireants,
I guess you had meant "SocialFireAnts", but this is a different topic. You sound as experienced ant keeper, tell me that you have never had problems with a colony and any of your queens have hadn't died.
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#45 Offline Vendayn - Posted April 1 2017 - 10:04 AM

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Personally, I don't think shipping queens is very logical. For example, many species can look VERY similar. And, even if they are in the "region" next to you (in the same state), and even if they are classified as the "same" species...often later in years people find out they aren't the same species at all. Like Messor in North America turned into Veromessor. And Dorymyrmex bicolor is actually many species classified as the same thing.

 

However, I have witnessed myself the destruction of both construction AND irrigation. Because of irrigation, a whole area of Pogonomyrmex californicus are now dead because Argentine ants took advantage of said irrigation. Construction for new apartments destroyed a whole area Solenopsis aurea/amblychila used to be in.

 

That has done more damage than anything else I've seen, just the huge amount of destruction of landscape...not just for ants...but many wildlife (insects, animals etc). I saw that down in San Diego, an entire valley (on top of the valley) destroyed and an entire ecosystem taken over by invasive Argentine ants and housing.


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#46 Offline Shareallicu - Posted April 2 2017 - 5:29 PM

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Socalfireants, shipping queen ants is legal in America if a person has a permit to ship them.  

More and more myrmecology hobbyists are getting those permits so they can buy ants from anywhere, and most of them are adults.  Don't worry so much :)



#47 Offline gcsnelling - Posted April 2 2017 - 5:33 PM

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More and more myrmecology hobbyists are getting those permits  :)

 

Really?, who are these hobbyists getting permits and how big a bribe must they pay? I guarantee you American ant hobbyists are not getting permits. It aint happening.


Edited by gcsnelling, April 2 2017 - 5:34 PM.

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#48 Offline Shareallicu - Posted April 2 2017 - 5:37 PM

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More and more myrmecology hobbyists are getting those permits  :)

 

Really?, who are these hobbyists getting permits and how big a bribe must they pay? I guarantee you American ant hobbyists are not getting permits. It aint happening.

 

You are assuming they aren't.  I know for a fact one person who is, and another who is contemplating getting one.   Although she isn't sure because she doesn't want more than a few queens, And it seems like less trouble to find them.


Edited by Shareallicu, April 2 2017 - 5:38 PM.


#49 Offline gcsnelling - Posted April 2 2017 - 5:47 PM

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If you are speaking of the individual here on the forum who is posting his attempt I am aware of this. However facility quarantine procedures alone are going to be something which is impossible for him to comply with. The California academy of science themselves were barely able to get permits when they were attempting to obtain a permit to display Eciton.


Edited by gcsnelling, April 2 2017 - 5:50 PM.

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#50 Offline Socalfireants - Posted May 4 2017 - 8:50 AM

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More and more myrmecology hobbyists are getting those permits  :)

 

Really?, who are these hobbyists getting permits and how big a bribe must they pay? I guarantee you American ant hobbyists are not getting permits. It aint happening.

 

You are assuming they aren't.  I know for a fact one person who is, and another who is contemplating getting one.   Although she isn't sure because she doesn't want more than a few queens, And it seems like less trouble to find them.

 

One person means absolutely nothing when you have droves of morons shipping to make a quick buck. 



#51 Offline Socalfireants - Posted May 4 2017 - 8:53 AM

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This discussion again? I must say the things I am sick of seeing on this forum is not threads refrencing illegal trade but "pointless" posts like these. There was a day when all posts were once quality here! Not seeing much of that here lately. Anyways, this will be the last post I make in ridiculous threads such as these as I don't want to promote or instigate a thread like this in anyway.

Now, Only a select few people have done the whole illegal ant shipping, and I can assure you they know it's illegal. No matter whether you request them to stop and make posts like this it wil not help at all! As others have said, all your doing is causing issues between members. If you haven't noticed this hobby isn't very large, so naturally I think a person would try to avoid enemies within this community as it is so small. Illegal trade is spoken of every once in a while here, and all topics attempting to promote it are removed or edited. This forum has moderators that are capable of doing so, and as annoying as it may be.... they can take the few seconds to delete or edit a thread if need be. It's simply not something that we can just stop. People do what they want, and if they get caught then good! If not, then it's still not any of your business. If there is a thread that you feel is "illegal", then report it and move on.

With this being said, have a good day, and happy anting. :)

Sorry bro, but from what I've seen, attempts to deter illegal traders and shippers on this site arent well made. So... there's that. 



#52 Offline T.C. - Posted May 4 2017 - 9:12 AM

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Did you have to bring this back up? :P

Yeah, but only so much can be done. You can't accuse someone of something with no proof or ban someone for talking about it. :) I have personally witnesses links that lead to such things removed. Unfortunately, only so much can be done. :)

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#53 Offline zlez93 - Posted May 4 2017 - 9:32 AM

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Whatever you do, don't say anything along the lines of "my fire ants are coming tomorrow" regardless of where your from, or zeiss will tell you to stop it and ban you from the chat for an hour.

 

Oh, and here they are :) : 20170504_182837.jpg?psid=1


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#54 Offline Martialis - Posted May 4 2017 - 9:59 AM

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Please, don't revive this nonsense.


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