29 replies to this topic

[VoidElecent]

Hey All,

 

I have a couple questions about selling/purchasing queen ants and colonies. These question are more directed to some of the more experienced keepers on the forum; I don't think other beginners like me will really have a shot at answering them.

 

I'll just cut right to the chase and list my questions for whomever finds themselves with enough free time to answer them:

 

1. Is the GAN Farmer program the only way to sell queen ants? What are some other alternatives?

2. How reliable is the "ant-market"; can I be confident that a queen/small colony will be sold?

3. How should I know how to mark the price of my ants? Are some species more/less valuable than others?

4. Is AC's GAN program respectable and legitimate?

 

These are just some really broad questions, so if they get answered well and thoughtfully, I'll post some more. If you decide to answer any one of them (which you may or may not), please consider taking the time to answer it thoroughly; I'd rather have a robust answer to one of them than one word responses to all.

 

Thank you,

Void.

[T.C.]

Hello, I am not what you would call a expert, but I also wouldn't say I am a beginner any more either. You can do private sales, if someone asks on the forum for that particular species say, and you have them. You can sell them to that person. However please keep in mind they must be within your state, due to the fact it's illegal to ship queens across state borders. The "Ant Market" can be good to some, and not so much to others. It depends on where you live, and how many others ant keepers live there to buy them from you. I only know of one other ant keeper within my state. However in a place like California, I know a ridiculous number of ant keepers. I know a few people who have made hundreds off of the GAN project.

 

Speaking of Gan, I don't like the way it is done. However that is your best way of selling and buying colonies "Currently". It is reliable, and you will probably sell/buy a few colonies from it. At the same time, the rules I disagree with, and I think the way it is done is rather... if you will, "Old Fashioned". However it appears everyone has a different opinion on the subject, so take a look and form a opinion yourself. Not off what others say. I am personally hanging out and waiting until GAN is done differently.

 

Lastly as to how much colonies are worth, i couldn't really tell you to be honest. However it comes down to several factors. Obvioulsy the species, as well as the colonies size and age.

[noebl1]

Hello, I am not what you would call a expert, but I also wouldn't say I am a beginner any more either. You can do private sales, if someone asks on the forum for that particular species say, and you have them. You can sell them to that person. However please keep in mind they must be within your state, due to the fact it's illegal to ship queens across state borders. The "Ant Market" can be good to some, and not so much to others. It depends on where you live, and how many others ant keepers live there to buy them from you. I only know of one other ant keeper within my state. However in a place like California, I know a ridiculous number of ant keepers. I know a few people who have made hundreds off of the GAN project.

 

Speaking of Gan, I don't like the way it is done. However that is your best way of selling and buying colonies "Currently". It is reliable, and you will probably sell/buy a few colonies from it. At the same time, the rules I disagree with, and I think the way it is done is rather... if you will, "Old Fashioned". However it appears everyone has a different opinion on the subject, so take a look and form a opinion yourself. Not off what others say. I am personally hanging out and waiting until GAN is done differently.

 

Lastly as to how much colonies are worth, i couldn't really tell you to be honest. However it comes down to several factors. Obvioulsy the species, as well as the colonies size and age.

 

I had sort of the same feelings about it, this is the part that killed it from me from their sellers agreement:

"3) [Exclusivity] Never sell ants to anyone except through the GAN Project; this also applies to previous GAN Hosts (customers). Any and all ant purchasing transactions must be made through the GAN Project through AntsCanada.com unless express written permission is obtained from AntsCanada.com via email. Any inquiries the GAN Farmers may get personally or online must be directed to AntsCanada.com to make the purchase of the GAN Farmer’s colonies."

 

I'm not a lawyer, but that to me reads as if you want to be a GAN farmer, any selling transaction you for ants has to be thru GAN, which disallows private sales unless you ask permission... I'm not sure they really do much about it, but I still dislike that it's there and enough for me not to join.

 

EDIT:  With all that being said, besides occasionally hooking up with people on the forums like this, it's really right now the main way to get enough exposure if you are serious about selling.

 

EDIT2:  Also some pretty good money in it.  I met a local guy who spent over $100 on a Camponotus pennsylvanicus starter colony from a GAN farmer, and where I live they are major pests and swarm by the millions in May. It's all relative to where you live, what you can find, and how much you want charge like anything else.

Edited by noebl1, January 29 2017 - 4:50 PM.

[Serafine]

The idea of the GAN project is nice but this really kills it - this and the extremely amateur design and execution of it.
 

ARKANSAS, USA:

Gravette (1 GAN Farmer)

Species: Unidentified black ant species
Colony size: 2+ workers
Housing: Glass bottle
Price: $20 USD each, $50 for all 3 colonies
Number of colonies: 3

 

Sterling Heights (1 GAN Farmer)

Species: Unidentified species
Colony size: 5-10 workers
Housing: Test tube
Price: $35-$60
Number of colonies available: 13

I mean, WTF?

Unidentified ant species?

THIRTEEN COLONIES OF UNIDENTIFIED ANTS?

How the hell can we even know it's queens and not just some majors.

 

You'd expect that if they charge antkeepers for selling stuff via their system they would actually assist them in identifying their species at least.

You'd expect some sort of quality control. Everyone with a remote clue of webdesign can put a up a similar project, do it for free with have a better quality.

Like a page that actually has pictures of the ants or so.

[dermy]

The idea of the GAN project is nice but this really kills it - this and the extremely amateur design and execution of it.
 

ARKANSAS, USA:

Gravette (1 GAN Farmer)

Species: Unidentified black ant species
Colony size: 2+ workers
Housing: Glass bottle
Price: $20 USD each, $50 for all 3 colonies
Number of colonies: 3

 

Sterling Heights (1 GAN Farmer)

Species: Unidentified species
Colony size: 5-10 workers
Housing: Test tube
Price: $35-$60
Number of colonies available: 13

I mean, WTF?

Unidentified ant species?

THIRTEEN COLONIES OF UNIDENTIFIED ANTS?

How the hell can we even know it's queens and not just some majors.

 

You'd expect that if they charge antkeepers for selling stuff via their system they would actually assist them in identifying their species at least.

You'd expect some sort of quality control. Everyone with a remote clue of webdesign can put a up a similar project, do it for free with have a better quality.

Like a page that actually has pictures of the ants or so.

So wait, do they not have to Post legit Pictures of the Colonies? That to me just smells shady...........

[Canadian anter]

1/ The GAN fis not the only way, there are plenty of private dealers out there

2. depends

3. I usually mark them based on whaat price I would buy them for (although I've been told they're underpriced)

4. yes it is

[T.C.]

I had sort of the same feelings about it, this is the part that killed it from me from their sellers agreement:

"3) [Exclusivity] Never sell ants to anyone except through the GAN Project; this also applies to previous GAN Hosts (customers). Any and all ant purchasing transactions must be made through the GAN Project through AntsCanada.com unless express written permission is obtained from AntsCanada.com via email. Any inquiries the GAN Farmers may get personally or online must be directed to AntsCanada.com to make the purchase of the GAN Farmer’s colonies."

 

I'm not a lawyer, but that to me reads as if you want to be a GAN farmer, any selling transaction you for ants has to be thru GAN, which disallows private sales unless you ask permission... I'm not sure they really do much about it, but I still dislike that it's there and enough for me not to join.

 

EDIT:  With all that being said, besides occasionally hooking up with people on the forums like this, it's really right now the main way to get enough exposure if you are serious about selling.

 

EDIT2:  Also some pretty good money in it.  I met a local guy who spent over $100 on a camponotus pennsylvanicus starter colony from a GAN farmer, and where I live they are major pests and swarm by the millions in May. It's all relative to where you live, what you can find, and how much you want charge like anything else.

 

Yep, I have nothing against Mikey... Well actually I do, But I am not one of those people that go out and publicaly try and embarrass or shame him? Anyways, I am not on GAN for a reason. Like you pointed out, those rules are kind of "Ridiculous". If I want to privately sell a colony, that's what I am going too do and if AC tried to interfere I would be fairly upset. I understand some members don't have any issues with GAN and the way it's done, I still stand firmly on the fact, it's done in such a old way. The rules are ridiculous, and the fact it has to go through Ants Canada like it does, I am not interested at all.  Like I mentioned, I am waiting for someone to propose a different way for it to be done or a different website done more modernly. Also, (Don't quote me on this) however I am pretty sure AC doesn't allow shipping ants either. A person has to meet with the other to receive the colony?  Can anyone confirm this?

[Serafine]

Yes you have to get them in person. Which is kinda ridiculous considering that you can only sell them to people in the same state anyway. It's not like the ants get horribly stressed out when in the mail for 2-3 days. My Camponotus where super relaxed when I got them after they spend 5 days in the mail (most likely the package just lied around for 90% of the time). Just put in a proper buffer out of cotton and bubble wrap, slap a "fragile!" sticker on it so they don't throw it around and it should be fine.

Edited by Serafine, January 30 2017 - 3:05 AM.

[Alabama Anter]

1. No, there are many ways like... The BlackMarket, Private sales/trades, and just posting on the internet to see if anyone wants to trade/buy

2. (By ant market I will be assuming the black market...) It is actually surprisingly reliable (Yes I have done it a few times Scammers are really easy to figure out. Just watch for desperation to sell/trade.

3. Yes, some ants are more valuable than others. Let's put Odontomachus brunneus and Solenopsis Invicta. Obviously, Odontomachus would sell for more, Colony size matters too. A colony of 10 would sell cheaper than a colony of 100 of the same species.

4. Well.... Like many people have said, it is unprofessional and weak.

[Loops117]

Wow, that guy in Sterling Heights is a local anter that I trade with. I’ve been trying to get pictures from him for an ID, but they’re unclear. I could post them for anyone interested.

 

As for GAN. I fully endorse GAN for it’s abilities and free-ness. Lemme point some things out.

 

 

1.GAN is completely free on both sides, so there are no middle man fees or surcharges. Only price you pay is the price of the colony.

AC has completely taken their hand out of our pocket and have given us farmers free range on prices and selling. We can offer a queen at a $100 or a colony for free, it doesn’t matter.  They’ve also taken out the payment type requirements, so you can do cash on trade, it’s completely up to you.

 

2.AC has a larger follower base then the next 3 competitors combined.

&

3.GAN is the FIRST link you get on google when you search “Buy queen ant online”

These two alone should be the biggest attraction for anyone selling anything. This right here is FREE ADVERTISEMENT for selling YOUR ants. No matter how hard you try, you’re not going to reach the same amount of people on your own unless you take the time to build up an empire as AC has. And not to mention, the upkeep you would have to do just to keep it running. You would either have to charge, or pay money out of pocket to reach as many corners as GAN is currently. Which will eventually end due to not being able to compete with GAN, just ask another member that has tried.

 

4.GAN completely screens your emails before you get an inquiry.

I’ve had many inquiries for my ants through GAN, FB, and this site. GAN gives me the least amount of trouble when it comes to dealing with customers, and just browsers. I get a lot less people wanting to ship, and a lot more people committing to buy. I’m assuming this is because GAN doesn’t have my email out there for anyone to contact me, or send me ads. They receive an inquiry from someone wanting ants, and they locate the nearest farmer and CC them in the email. After that, GAN steps out and lets you take it from there.

 

5.GAN has a very easy laid out and user friendly format.

What possible way would you want to change this that could make it any better? Do you want more rules, or require pictures? Maybe give a link or special spot for each farmer to show everything else they do? You have to keep in mind that this is an “adoption agency” for ants. They’re keeping it super simple and sweet for both sides to conduct business.

 

 

I prolly could have added more, but ehh. I feel that anyone that wants to make their own version of GAN either hasn’t actually dealt with GAN/farmer, wants control, or just wants to ship ants. Which btw, that rule was put in place to stop anyone from breaking a law, and/or being persuaded to. GAN is put in place to help promote the safe keeping and preservation of our native species, so the cardinal rule is what it’s based around, no shipping ants. I think that’s a very simple rule to follow when it comes to GAN. If it’s too far for you to drive and/or meetup, then it’s prolly too far for your ants to go anyway. I’ll admit, I’ve thought about shipping my ants within Michigan. One overnight to a customer just over an hour away that couldn’t drive at the time, and another that was 3 hrs away on the other side of the state. Both deals ended up being made and no ants were shipped. I had real inquiries from serious buyers, and serious buyers will do what they have to do to make their purchase. One paid gas, and the other drove 2.5hrs to meet me, and gave me gas money for my half hr drive. 

[Serafine]

1.GAN is completely free on both sides, so there are no middle man fees or surcharges. Only price you pay is the price of the colony.

This is a good thing. However they should update their rules on the GAN page then.
 

2.AC has a larger follower base then the next 3 competitors combined.
&

Of course they have. That's not hard with a 400.000 subscriber youtube channel.

 

3.GAN is the FIRST link you get on google when you search “Buy queen ant online”

 

4.GAN completely screens your emails before you get an inquiry.

Good.
 

5.GAN has a very easy laid out and user friendly format.

Honestly, browsing it is rather uncomfortable and the layout is VERY oldfashioned.
We're not in the age of scrolling anymore, we're in the age of clickable tiles, for a far quicker and more comfortable navigation.
Also pictures would be nice.

Edited by Serafine, January 30 2017 - 7:07 AM.

[Loops117]

 3.GAN is the FIRST link you get on google when you search “Buy queen ant online”

 

5.GAN has a very easy laid out and user friendly format.

Honestly, browsing it is rather uncomfortable and the layout is VERY oldfashioned.
We're not in the age of scrolling anymore, we're in the age of clickable tiles, for a far quicker and more comfortable navigation.
Also pictures would be nice.

 

 

You literally didn't read what the first quote says.

 

And i understand with the scrolling. Yes, that could use a change. I thought you meant the format for posting. My bad

[Serafine]

You literally didn't read what the first quote says.

Who types "buy queen ants online" when he want's to buy ants?
That's like typing "buy books about cooking in the kitchen online" when you could just type "cook book".

And i understand with the scrolling. Yes, that could use a change. I thought you meant the format for posting. My bad

No, it's the user interface. It really needs a visual and functional update. Just compare it to pages like AntKit or Gamergate.

[Loops117]

 

You literally didn't read what the first quote says.

Who types "buy queen ants online" when he want's to buy ants?
That's like typing "buy books about cooking in the kitchen online" when you could just type "cook book".

And i understand with the scrolling. Yes, that could use a change. I thought you meant the format for posting. My bad

No, it's the user interface. It really needs a visual and functional update. Just compare it to pages like AntKit or Gamergate.

 

 

Have you never bought anything online? Any insects? When i search "Buy _______" without "online", i get buying guides or how and were to go. I rarely get online vendors, so i guess i do. Also, you're not in the US, so your case isn't the same as ours. We're not allowed to import ants, buddy.

 

Edit: Also, yer an idiot if you would even consider those first 2 links.

Edited by Loops117, January 30 2017 - 7:51 AM.

[Serafine]

Have you never bought anything online? Any insects? When i search "Buy _______" without "online", i get buying guides or how and were to go. I rarely get online vendors, so i guess i do. Also, you're not in the US, so your case isn't the same as ours. We're not allowed to import ants, buddy.

I guess EU google is a lot different from US google. When I search for anything to buy I instantly get online shops - and if not, google search has a "shopping" tab these days.
 

Edit: Also, yer an idiot if you would even consider those first 2 links.

Now that you mentioned it I actually looked at that page. Aside from the fact that pretty much everything is sold out, wtf are these "formicaria"? I could do something better with stuff from the local DIY shop.

Edited by Serafine, January 30 2017 - 9:59 AM.

[VoidElecent]

Thanks guys, these are all responses I was looking for. How would you recommend I go about looking for people to buy/sell ants with? For the money, yes, but also for the opportunity to find and meet more people interested in keeping ants like I am. My brother and I caught a number of queens last year in the hopes of selling them, but have grown close to a couple and have decided to keep them instead! Let me know what you think.

[SamKeepsAnts]

If you want to sell them you can sell them privately or using GAN my guess is that you will get more sales using GAN (but they have rules you have to follow and i think they take $10 off every sale) And if you sell them privately you can ship them (Inside your state) instead of having to drive them

[Loops117]

 (i think they take $10 off every sale) 

They don't charge at all.

[Canadian anter]

 

 (i think they take $10 off every sale) 

They don't charge at all.

 

I'm pretty sure they do

[Agonzalez4771]

I mean, WTF?  

Unidentified ant species?

THIRTEEN COLONIES OF UNIDENTIFIED ANTS?

How the hell can we even know it's queens and not just some majors.

 

You'd expect that if they charge antkeepers for selling stuff via their system they would actually assist them in identifying their species at least.

You'd expect some sort of quality control. Everyone with a remote clue of webdesign can put a up a similar project, do it for free with have a better quality.

Like a page that actually has pictures of the ants or so.

 

 

Exactly... How can you sell something when you have no idea what your selling, and in my opinion, you must know your product before you consider selling... as you stated, it could just be a colony of workers.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Agonzalez4771, January 30 2017 - 12:38 PM.