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Dirt farms


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19 replies to this topic

#1 Offline The Australian nanictic - Posted May 17 2015 - 4:32 PM

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I have been keeping my pheidole colony in a fish tank filled with sandbox sand. But when it starts drying up it collapses like nothing else. What else can I use?

#2 Offline Ants4fun - Posted May 17 2015 - 5:32 PM

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First, I suggest you read the beginner's guide if you haven't done so... http://www.formicult...for-beginners/ 

 

Now there are several formicariums you can use. Crystal has kindly provided some guides to make a few of them. Grout formicariums http://www.formicult...icture +journey, firebrick formicariums http://www.formicult...cture +journey, bead container formicariums http://www.formicult...cture +journey, and dirt/sand formicariums http://www.formicult...nd-formicarium/ . You can also get some ideas from here http://www.formicult...-and-outworlds/ .


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#3 Offline Barristan - Posted May 17 2015 - 7:11 PM

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Hi,

 

you could mix the sand with loam (3 parts sand 1 part loam) that will prevent the dirt from collapsing.



#4 Offline Jonathan21700 - Posted May 18 2015 - 11:41 AM

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You can use only dirt.



#5 Offline Ants4fun - Posted May 18 2015 - 12:54 PM

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You can use only dirt.


Umm why?

#6 Offline Crystals - Posted May 18 2015 - 6:44 PM

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It is possible to make a formicarium with dirt in it.  It is somewhat popular over in Europe, watching ants dig the tunnels.

But you need to find the right type of dirt.  I know one person who uses "compacting sand" - a type of sand that once pounded is not prone to collapse even if it dries out.

Try a few varieties of dirt and mixtures, try them and see how prone to collapse they are.

 

Personally, I prefer preformed tunnels as there is no chance of collapse and far less opportunity for the ants to cover the glass with dirt (although some will succeed).


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#7 Offline BugFinder - Posted May 18 2015 - 6:47 PM

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Try a few varieties of dirt and mixtures, try them and see how prone to collapse they are.

 

I like that idea alot.  you can just throw a few workers in there, let them dig. if it collapses you're ok because you haven't lost a queen/colony.   Do this for several types of dirt and you'll know what will work for you and what will not.  :)


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#8 Offline kellakk - Posted May 18 2015 - 7:06 PM

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Usually the smaller the particle size, the better the dirt sticks together.  If you add clay to your sand, the small size of clay means it will stay in between the sand grains and keep the substrate stable.  I can't tell you what combination works best, though, because that depends on the sand and clay that you're using. Also, when I say clay I mean clay substrate, not modelling clay or anything like that.


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#9 Offline The Australian nanictic - Posted May 19 2015 - 12:42 AM

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My pheidole prefer to next in sand for some reason. I just have to make sure I add water every few days. I'll try mixing some different substrate later.

#10 Offline Jonathan21700 - Posted May 19 2015 - 11:01 AM

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You can use only dirt.

Umm why?

 

 

The chance of collapsing is minimum. You could also use sandy soil.



#11 Offline Ants4fun - Posted May 19 2015 - 11:51 AM

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It doesn't mean he can use only dirt. He could use a variety of stuff like clay and sand, or perhaps use a horizontal setup, where he could use sand, and lots of other mediums.

#12 Offline Jonathan21700 - Posted May 19 2015 - 12:14 PM

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It doesn't mean he can use only dirt. He could use a variety of stuff like clay and sand, or perhaps use a horizontal setup, where he could use sand, and lots of other mediums.

Yeah.



#13 Offline Barristan - Posted May 20 2015 - 5:04 AM

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My pheidole prefer to next in sand for some reason. I just have to make sure I add water every few days. I'll try mixing some different substrate later.

 

Pheidole prefer dirt nests over other types of nests (ytong, plaster of paris etc.). In nature Pheidole (and a lot of other species) build their nests in dirt, maybe that is the reason why they prefer it.



#14 Offline drtrmiller - Posted May 20 2015 - 5:19 AM

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My pheidole prefer to next in sand for some reason. I just have to make sure I add water every few days. I'll try mixing some different substrate later.

 

Pheidole prefer dirt nests over other types of nests (ytong, plaster of paris etc.). In nature Pheidole (and a lot of other species) build their nests in dirt, maybe that is the reason why they prefer it.

 

 

There is a fundamental difference between where ants choose to nest in nature, and in which habitats they may adapt without consequence while kept in captivity.  

 

In nature, the difference between their options may vary a little, or a lot, depending on the class of biome in which they find themselves.  The goal in captivity, is to limit their options so that the provided nest is always the most suitable nesting location.  A well-designed formicarium should not handicap the captive ants in any way.




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#15 Offline Barristan - Posted May 20 2015 - 5:41 AM

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There is a fundamental difference between where ants choose to nest in nature, and in which habitats they may adapt without consequence while kept in captivity.  

 

In nature, the difference between their options may vary a little, or a lot, depending on the class of biome in which they find themselves.  The goal in captivity, is to limit their options so that the provided nest is always the most suitable nesting location.  A well-designed formicarium should not handicap the captive ants in any way.

 

 

I did not say that there are any negative consequences. I said that they still prefer digging in dirt if they have the possibility. There are numerous posts in forums in which people complain that their ants started digging in sand (because they made it moist by mistake) instead of using their provided nest. I think ants know better than any of us what is good or better for them. If they prefer dirt over a artificial nest that means that for some reason they think that it is a more suitable nesting location. The ultimate goal in formicarium design would be creating an artificial nest which ants prefer even more than their natural nesting material and at the same time still provide humans the possibility to watch them in it.

 

I also keep ants in ytong and plaster of paris nests so I'm not a "dirt is the only right way to keep ants" guy. But sometimes I keep thinking why some ant species still prefer dirt over some other nest types.


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#16 Offline dspdrew - Posted May 20 2015 - 5:49 AM

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Keep in mind, there are other factors that effect how easily a substrate nest will collapse. It's all about the ratio between the total weight of the substrate, and how well it is being held up, along with how well the particles stick together (hold each other up). If you have a very thin ant farm style nest, a large amount of that dirt will be stuck to the walls of the nest, and over all there is a very small amount of weight pushing down on it. Those will not collapse very easily. If you have an aquarium filled with dirt, there is a very tiny percentage of that dirt being held up by the sides, with a LOT of weight pushing down on it. Those will probably collapse very easily. The dirt needs something to hold it up, and the more dirt there is, the more it needs that reinforcement.


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#17 Offline drtrmiller - Posted May 20 2015 - 5:51 AM

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Since worker ants may be compared to the cells of higher organisms, and the colony as the whole organism, I don't dispute the idea that many ants have evolved a genetically defined colonial "organism structure"—that is, a manner of excavating material, generally wood or soil, to produce a repeatable pattern of chambers, tunnels, and other nest geometry specific to the genus/species—it is reasonable to assume that, with a few exceptions, ants will almost always prefer a freeform medium over a pre-formed nest, so as to achieve their genetically optimized form.


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byFormica® is the manufacturer of the iconic nectar feeders and Sunburst Ant Nectar.
byFormica ant products always deliver consistent performance, convenience,
and reliability, making them among the most beloved ant foods and kit enjoyed by
ant keeping enthusiasts worldwide. For more information, visit www.byFormica.com.

#18 Offline BrittonLS - Posted May 27 2015 - 8:42 AM

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A thought occurs to me, in a setup with something like two panes of glass, higher pressure on the substrate from the sides of the glass might help aside from just downward packing. Just an idle thought.

#19 Offline PTAntFan - Posted May 28 2015 - 4:32 PM

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Have you thought about trying Zoo Med's Excavator?  It's a clay/sand compound that is designed to hold its shape.  I have some of this but no colonies or formicarium at present to test for you.


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#20 Offline Chromerust - Posted May 28 2015 - 4:55 PM

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I don't think excavator is suitable for ants. It's designed to be molded and shaped damp and then dry to form hard dirt like structures. I can't remember the details, but it's not supposed to get wet again. This of course presents a problem for proper hydration for the ants.




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