24 replies to this topic

[ForestDragon]

OK I NEED HELP

 

so about 10 minutes ago I caught a Proceratium Sp queen super excited they are a lot smaller than I would expect I need to know a few things

 

If they are Semi or Fully claustral 

do they prefer dirt or tube setups

how to raise them I would really like to raise the one I caught she was found between a log and a brick by my fire pit I really need help to make her sucessfull

 

Thank you to anyone who will answer asap 

[Kaelwizard]

Umm... people don’t keep these. They eat spider eggs.
Also colonies only have like a tiny amount of workers in them.

[Mettcollsuss]

• I can't find anything on founding behaviors, so I'd try feeding her and see if she wants any.

 

• Proceratium lives mostly subterranean and in leaf litter but I assume they'll do fine in a test tube. Maybe add some dirt to the tube?

 

• I'd try to find what species she is. There are 3 Proceratium species in Ohio.

          P. silaceum is the most common. It lives in rotting logs, and likes to eat eggs of other bugs, especially spiders. It is also polygynous.

          P. pergandei lives in forest habitats and nests in both rotting logs and soil. What they eat is harder. They seem to eat only or mainly other ants. According to Antwiki, "Wesson and Wesson offered living and dead insects to a captive colony, but the only food accepted were the contents of the gasters of a few dead ants."

          P. crassicorne seems to have the largest colonies. It's native habitat is hardwood forests and seems to nest in both soil and logs. Diet is unknown but may be similar to P. silaceum.

[Manitobant]

I would give her some soil and try feeding her the eggs of some of your other founding queens as she is semi claustral. don't take all the eggs from your founding queens though, only a few.

[ponerinecat]

Give her some soil, and leaves. The best setup would be in  a petri dish. Feed her spider eggs, and you can give her the whole sack and open a tiny hole. She may use the sack as a founding chamber. You could test other arthropod eggs as well. This should be a really boring ant to raise from one queen, and given the amount of debris they need, you will hardly see her. Keep the soil moist. You can also add springtails as a cleanup crew. As Purdew for more information, he's keeping discothyrea, which is their sister genus. Pics would be nice. Good luck, this is at the top of my wishlist!

 

 

(Also, could I have the body if the worst happens?)

Edited by ponerinecat, August 18 2019 - 1:09 PM.

[ForestDragon]

So what I did as i have a new massive tapinoma colony i killed a worker and gave it to her and she is eating her and I will also try spider eggs and maybe some eggs from the tapinoma colony

[ForestDragon]

 

• I can't find anything on founding behaviors, so I'd try feeding her and see if she wants any.

 

• Proceratium lives mostly subterranean and in leaf litter but I assume they'll do fine in a test tube. Maybe add some dirt to the tube?

 

• I'd try to find what species she is. There are 3 Proceratium species in Ohio.

          P. silaceum is the most common. It lives in rotting logs, and likes to eat eggs of other bugs, especially spiders. It is also polygynous.

          P. pergandei lives in forest habitats and nests in both rotting logs and soil. What they eat is harder. They seem to eat only or mainly other ants. According to Antwiki, "Wesson and Wesson offered living and dead insects to a captive colony, but the only food accepted were the contents of the gasters of a few dead ants."

          P. crassicorne seems to have the largest colonies. It's native habitat is hardwood forests and seems to nest in both soil and logs. Diet is unknown but may be similar to P. silaceum.

 

Thanks for this info I should start a journal on her and i have Identified her as P. pergandei and she is currently eating a dead ant as we speak

[ponerinecat]

 

 

• I can't find anything on founding behaviors, so I'd try feeding her and see if she wants any.

 

• Proceratium lives mostly subterranean and in leaf litter but I assume they'll do fine in a test tube. Maybe add some dirt to the tube?

 

• I'd try to find what species she is. There are 3 Proceratium species in Ohio.

          P. silaceum is the most common. It lives in rotting logs, and likes to eat eggs of other bugs, especially spiders. It is also polygynous.

          P. pergandei lives in forest habitats and nests in both rotting logs and soil. What they eat is harder. They seem to eat only or mainly other ants. According to Antwiki, "Wesson and Wesson offered living and dead insects to a captive colony, but the only food accepted were the contents of the gasters of a few dead ants."

          P. crassicorne seems to have the largest colonies. It's native habitat is hardwood forests and seems to nest in both soil and logs. Diet is unknown but may be similar to P. silaceum.

 

Thanks for this info I should start a journal on her and i have Identified her as P. pergandei and she is currently eating a dead ant as we speak

 

That's new. Proceratium are only known to eat arthropod eggs.

[ForestDragon]

 

 

 

• I can't find anything on founding behaviors, so I'd try feeding her and see if she wants any.

 

• Proceratium lives mostly subterranean and in leaf litter but I assume they'll do fine in a test tube. Maybe add some dirt to the tube?

 

• I'd try to find what species she is. There are 3 Proceratium species in Ohio.

          P. silaceum is the most common. It lives in rotting logs, and likes to eat eggs of other bugs, especially spiders. It is also polygynous.

          P. pergandei lives in forest habitats and nests in both rotting logs and soil. What they eat is harder. They seem to eat only or mainly other ants. According to Antwiki, "Wesson and Wesson offered living and dead insects to a captive colony, but the only food accepted were the contents of the gasters of a few dead ants."

          P. crassicorne seems to have the largest colonies. It's native habitat is hardwood forests and seems to nest in both soil and logs. Diet is unknown but may be similar to P. silaceum.

 

Thanks for this info I should start a journal on her and i have Identified her as P. pergandei and she is currently eating a dead ant as we speak

 

That's new. Proceratium are only known to eat arthropod eggs.

 

It has been recorded once or twice but I will give her some soil and some spider eggs

[ponerinecat]

 

Wierd proceratium sp.

 

 

https://blog.myrmeco...oceratium-itoi/

Some interesting behavior in a related species.

https://academic.oup...edFrom=fulltext

A paper on non spider arthropod eggs in nests of the same species. You may not be able to view the full paper though.

https://www.amazon.c...a/dp/1376958570

A literal book on the entire proceratium genus.

Edited by ponerinecat, August 18 2019 - 1:18 PM.

[ForestDragon]

 

Wierd proceratium sp.

 

 

https://blog.myrmeco...oceratium-itoi/

Some interesting behavior in a related species.

https://academic.oup...edFrom=fulltext

A paper on non spider arthropod eggs in nests of the same species. You may not be able to view the full paper though.

https://www.amazon.c...a/dp/1376958570

A literal book on the entire proceratium genus.

WOW thank you for all this I might wanna buy that book

[ponerinecat]

Quote form antwiki: "Almost all species of Proceratium spend their lives in concealment, usually in rotten wood or deep humus, but sometimes under stones in colder climates. Captive colonies will accept, usually reluctantly, various types of insect prey, but the principle diet appears to be the eggs of arthropods, particularly spiders (Brown 1958a and 1980). The peculiarly modified gaster seems to be primarily defensive in function. The hypertrophied second gastral tergite conceals the terminal gastral segments, it presents a hardened surface to enemies approaching from the rear, and it is equipped with a gland that probably produces defensive chemicals (Baroni Urbani and de Andrade 2003). Although unusual in ants, insects in other groups have convergently evolved similar adaptations to provide a rigid armor for the gaster, while maintaining flexibility for the terminal abdominal segments... The anteriorly-directed terminal segments of the gaster have also been seen helping in the manipulation and transportation of spider eggs (Brown 1980), but nobody claims that the abdominal modifications are a necessary adaptation for this purpose, as other groups of ants have no difficulty dealing with round objects."

 

Quote from antwiki:" A small colony (8 specimens) was found in a rotten pine stump below the surface of the ground. Paul Skelley collected several specimens from traps set up in burrow systems of pocket gophers (Geomys pinetis). Wesson and Wesson offered living and dead insects to a captive colony, but the only food accepted were the contents of the gasters of a few dead ants. Brown (1980) found a colony feeding on and storing spider eggs in a nest in rotten wood.

Wesson & Wesson (1940) kept under observation a colony of P. pergandei from Jackson (Ohio) comprising 1 gyne, 11 workers and 8 males. After many attempts to feed the colony on different types of insect food, the authors suggest that these ants may live on dead or dying ants at least in part. Talbot (1957) found in St. Charles (Missouri) a supposedly complete colony of Proceratium pergandei comprising 1 gyne, 13 workers and 13 larvae. (Baroni Urbani and de Andrade 2003)"

 

So they do seem to enjoy other ants.

 

Here's some info for replicating nests.

 

Quote from antweb:"Found most commonly in these habitats: 2 times found in deciduous forest, 2 times found in litter- bamboo thicket in bottomland hardwood forest, 1 times found in mesic campground, 1 times found in mesic forest, 1 times found in mixed flatwoods, 1 times found in base of Pinus sp., 1 times found in mixed pine/hardwood forest, 1 times found in Black Belt Prairie, 1 times found in oak maple woodland, 1 times found in Sand Pine Scrub, ...

Found most commonly in these microhabitats: 1 times log-leaf litter, 1 times litter foragers, 1 times litter.

Collected most commonly using these methods: 2 times Berlese, 4 times Berlese funnel, 3 times malaise trap, 2 times general collecting, 1 times Winkler, 1 times hand collected, 1 times Lindgren funnel trap baited with typosan and alpha-pinene, 1 times malaise trap in mature sand, 1 times pitfall, 0 times pitfall traps."

Edited by ponerinecat, August 18 2019 - 1:34 PM.

[PurdueEntomology]

I have been successfully keeping a few Proceratium spp here in Knoxville.  I have found that if you can collect a recently made egg sac, indicating the eggs are newly laid, of the common house spider that a colony and a newly established queen will take them.  I collect from barns, basements etc and just regularly check female spiders and their webs and when a new sac appears I collect it.  The ants will not take spider eggs that have advanced in their development.  Parasteatoda tepidariorum, the common house spider.

[MegaMyrmex]

As of right now you might be able to catch some wolf spiders with eggsacs and take the eggs from them, or look for house spiders that have egg sacs in their webs, but always make sure that whatever you feed them is pesticide free.

[Canadant]

Boo hiss!

I'm here to learn from keepers of ants, let it be beginners or pros. If the member who found the proceratium ant wants to raise said ant he's/she's ABSOLUTELY in the right forum. And I'm very interested in what members have to say. I'm also interested in others and their anting experiences, frustrationss and victories. It's strange to be on an ant keeping forum and members are telling others NOT to raise ants.

Smh

[ForestDragon]

so she has not shed her wings but I will make a small natural setup for her where she can forage

I have been successfully keeping a few Proceratium spp here in Knoxville.  I have found that if you can collect a recently made egg sac, indicating the eggs are newly laid, of the common house spider that a colony and a newly established queen will take them.  I collect from barns, basements etc and just regularly check female spiders and their webs and when a new sac appears I collect it.  The ants will not take spider eggs that have advanced in their development.  Parasteatoda tepidariorum, the common house spider.

do they do better in tubes, or in natural setups

[Kaelwizard]

Boo hiss!

I'm here to learn from keepers of ants, let it be beginners or pros. If the member who found the proceratium ant wants to raise said ant he's/she's ABSOLUTELY in the right forum. And I'm very interested in what members have to say. I'm also interested in others and their anting experiences, frustrationss and victories. It's strange to be on an ant keeping forum and members are telling others NOT to raise ants.

Smh

Where did you get that last part from? I said that people generally don’t keep these. I never said to never keep them. So, can you help them with raising this ant? Or are you here to talk trash about what other members say?

Edited by Kaelwizard, August 21 2019 - 6:06 AM.

[ponerinecat]

Umm... people don’t keep these. They eat spider eggs.
Also colonies only have like a tiny amount of workers in them.

Worker count can reach 220. That's not a tiny amount.

[ForestDragon]

 

Umm... people don’t keep these. They eat spider eggs.
Also colonies only have like a tiny amount of workers in them.

Worker count can reach 220. That's not a tiny amount.

 

depends on which species, some reach 220 some reach like 30 or lower its weird

[Kaelwizard]

Umm... people don’t keep these. They eat spider eggs.
Also colonies only have like a tiny amount of workers in them.

Worker count can reach 220. That's not a tiny amount.

Oh. On AntWiki it said like 20 is a high amount for some species I had looked up.