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Feeding queens during founding?


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#1 Offline Pumpkin_Loves_Ants - Posted July 8 2019 - 1:43 PM

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Hello! I was wondering about feeding fully claustral queens during their founding period. Does it have any affect on the nanitics or no? Say I fed her a drop of honey. Will that help keep her energized until her first workers hatch or is it not even worth it because she might get stressed out when I go to feed/remove the food. Same question about proteins. Would feeding her a fruit fly or two help the nanitics develop faster and live longer? 

 

Basically is it worth giving a queen a small peice of protein and a tiny drop of some sugars to boost the growth of the nanitics eggs.



#2 Offline nurbs - Posted July 8 2019 - 1:55 PM

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You can give her a drop of honey or sweets, that's fine. You don't need protein. Give it to her right before you setup the test tube. Then leave her alone for a month. You do not need to feed. Try not to peek or disturb her.


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#3 Online ANTdrew - Posted July 8 2019 - 2:04 PM

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Giving her a TINY drop of honey water right as you set up her test tube can be helpful. I would soak it in the cut off end of a Qtip to prevent any drowning with tiny ants. Protein in her tube is liable to mold in my experience.

"The ants are a people not strong, yet they prepare their meat in the summer." Prov. 30:25


#4 Offline AntsDakota - Posted July 8 2019 - 3:28 PM

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Protein in her tube is liable to mold in my experience.

Unless you clean it out right after she's done.



#5 Offline AntsDakota - Posted July 8 2019 - 3:29 PM

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Feeding fully claustral queens actually doesn't benefit them significantly, so I would suggest just letting them found their colony naturally.



#6 Offline camponotuskeeper - Posted July 8 2019 - 7:17 PM

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You don’t need to do this I tried it with a fully claustral queen and she didn't want it

#7 Offline Pumpkin_Loves_Ants - Posted July 8 2019 - 8:42 PM

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You don’t need to do this I tried it with a fully claustral queen and she didn't want it

Did you try it with carbs or protein or both? If so which one did she not accept?



#8 Offline Canadian anter - Posted July 9 2019 - 7:01 AM

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I super recommend feeding even claustral Queens. I've seen consistently queens starting out with 40% more nanitics when fed in some species.
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#9 Offline Ant_Dude2908 - Posted July 9 2019 - 7:24 AM

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I super recommend feeding even claustral Queens. I've seen consistently queens starting out with 40% more nanitics when fed in some species.


Same with me. I give them honey and a fruit fly each week.

#10 Offline camponotuskeeper - Posted July 9 2019 - 8:20 AM

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Just carbs cause I did not want to risk mold from protein as mentioned above that it could

#11 Offline camponotuskeeper - Posted July 9 2019 - 11:09 AM

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Canadian anter you super recommend feeding even claustral Queens, because you have consistently seen queens starting out with 40% more nanitics when fed in some species. Which species are those ?

#12 Online Barristan - Posted July 9 2019 - 2:43 PM

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I super recommend feeding even claustral Queens. I've seen consistently queens starting out with 40% more nanitics when fed in some species.

 

How many sample colonies of the same species/year have you used? Did you examine a control group of the same species without additional feeding?

 

The problem is that the number of nanitics vary quite heavily even if you look at colonies from the same species/year. So you need a quite large sample size to actually proof (with a high probability) that there is a benefit of feeding a queen (which normally claustrally founds a colony).



#13 Offline Pumpkin_Loves_Ants - Posted July 9 2019 - 4:31 PM

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Ok I decided to feed her the tiniest drop of syrup you've ever seen. I don't know if she will eat it all so I will try to remove it in a couple of days. It is very resistant to mold and spoiling since I have had the same bottle for around half a year now. Does anybody know how to remove sticky liquids from test tubes fast and efficently because I do not want to disturb her. Why? Because she laid her first batch of eggs :D



#14 Offline Unfrozen - Posted July 9 2019 - 10:34 PM

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Use a moist cotton swap and spin it

#15 Online ANTdrew - Posted July 10 2019 - 2:32 AM

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Ok I decided to feed her the tiniest drop of syrup you've ever seen. I don't know if she will eat it all so I will try to remove it in a couple of days. It is very resistant to mold and spoiling since I have had the same bottle for around half a year now. Does anybody know how to remove sticky liquids from test tubes fast and efficently because I do not want to disturb her. Why? Because she laid her first batch of eggs :D

I’d say don’t remove or add anything to the tube at this point. Sticking something in there will definitely stress the queen out. Tetramorium get workers really fast, so don’t worry about the droplet.
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"The ants are a people not strong, yet they prepare their meat in the summer." Prov. 30:25


#16 Offline Pumpkin_Loves_Ants - Posted July 10 2019 - 10:34 AM

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Ok I decided to feed her the tiniest drop of syrup you've ever seen. I don't know if she will eat it all so I will try to remove it in a couple of days. It is very resistant to mold and spoiling since I have had the same bottle for around half a year now. Does anybody know how to remove sticky liquids from test tubes fast and efficently because I do not want to disturb her. Why? Because she laid her first batch of eggs :D

I’d say don’t remove or add anything to the tube at this point. Sticking something in there will definitely stress the queen out. Tetramorium get workers really fast, so don’t worry about the droplet.

 

Shoot I didn't see this message until now. I just checked up on her and she ate all the syrup. I don't know if this is because of the energy boost but she laid like 5 more eggs making a total of I assume around 8 in a giant pile in the middle of the tube. But from this point on I am not going to add/remove things or check on her for a week or two. I also caught another Tetramorium sp. this morning on my driveway. I setup a testube setup and put a tiny drop of syrup in and she moved right in. I will check on them in around two weeks. Thanks for the help!



#17 Online ANTdrew - Posted July 10 2019 - 10:55 AM

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Feel free to gently peek in once a week. This species doesn’t get stressed that easily. I wouldn’t do anything beyond that like you said. Good luck!

"The ants are a people not strong, yet they prepare their meat in the summer." Prov. 30:25


#18 Offline Canadian anter - Posted July 11 2019 - 9:22 AM

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I super recommend feeding even claustral Queens. I've seen consistently queens starting out with 40% more nanitics when fed in some species.

 
How many sample colonies of the same species/year have you used? Did you examine a control group of the same species without additional feeding?
 
The problem is that the number of nanitics vary quite heavily even if you look at colonies from the same species/year. So you need a quite large sample size to actually proof (with a high probability) that there is a benefit of feeding a queen (which normally claustrally founds a colony).
Specifically I used a local Lasius species, and Camponotus herculeanus where I saw best results. Camponotus herculeanus had 20 queens in either group and the Lasius species had 50 in each group. I don't have the exact data, but if I remember correctly the increase was around 50% in Lasius and 20-25% in Camponotus after using two-sample t-test for means for both groups.
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#19 Offline camponotuskeeper - Posted July 11 2019 - 9:48 AM

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Interesting so other lasius and camponotus species might benefit as well if these benefited from it. What would you say the chances of that would be?

#20 Offline Canadian anter - Posted July 11 2019 - 9:58 AM

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Interesting so other lasius and camponotus species might benefit as well if these benefited from it. What would you say the chances of that would be?

I would say almost all would benefit. If not from extra workers, then from more sustenance in general. Of course, how much the feeding stresses out the queens should be strongly considered, which is one of the reasons I prefer not to do this with many Formica spp
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