Jump to content

  • Chat
  •  
  •  





Welcome to Formiculture.com!

This is a website for anyone interested in Myrmecology and all aspects of finding, keeping, and studying ants. The site and forum are free to use, and contain no ads for members. Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation points to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!

Photo
- - - - -

Making a Camponotus Super Colony


  • Please log in to reply
17 replies to this topic

#1 Offline CloudtheDinosaurKing - Posted December 3 2018 - 7:21 PM

CloudtheDinosaurKing

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 173 posts
  • LocationSouth Carolina, United States

I have 4 Camponotus castaneus queen, and 2 of them have workers. All of the others workers have died, and through experimentation, I have found out that you can move the queens together, as long as you dip them in water to remove their pheromones. I did that with on of my queens, and she is currently doing just fine with her new colony. I have had that queen for several months now. What I am going to however is merge all of them together with my biggest colony which is home to 11 workers. I will test out one worker just to be safe, but I have a feeling this will work. I will update you guys on the progress.


  • AntsBC likes this

Spoiler


#2 Offline Will230145 - Posted December 3 2018 - 7:51 PM

Will230145

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 136 posts
  • LocationGrove City, Pennsylvania
Anything yet?

#3 Offline Leo - Posted December 3 2018 - 8:43 PM

Leo

    Advanced Member

  • Junior Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,017 posts
  • LocationHong Kong

It works



#4 Offline CloudtheDinosaurKing - Posted December 3 2018 - 9:44 PM

CloudtheDinosaurKing

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 173 posts
  • LocationSouth Carolina, United States

So far, I have introduced 1 worker and a queen, and they have accepted them. I will continue the move tomorrow.


  • Ant_Dude2908 likes this

Spoiler


#5 Offline T.C. - Posted December 4 2018 - 10:44 AM

T.C.

    Advanced Member

  • Moderators
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,447 posts
  • LocationWestern Wisconsin
Dipping them in water?

#6 Offline FSTP - Posted December 4 2018 - 11:28 AM

FSTP

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 396 posts
  • Location36.7378° N, 119.7871° W

I'm skeptical. 


  • Skwiggledork likes this

#7 Offline Wa.Va - Posted December 4 2018 - 12:13 PM

Wa.Va

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 26 posts
I don't think it is possible to wash away pheromones with water..? In flooded areas sometimes for example Myrmica spp. still find its way back, after wondering far from home after a storm.

Also sometimes it looks like they accepted the new gyne, but in reality they just ignore it and won't feed and care for it.
Or am I way to sceptical here.

#8 Offline CloudtheDinosaurKing - Posted December 4 2018 - 12:35 PM

CloudtheDinosaurKing

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 173 posts
  • LocationSouth Carolina, United States

I don't think it is possible to wash away pheromones with water..? In flooded areas sometimes for example Myrmica spp. still find its way back, after wondering far from home after a storm.

Also sometimes it looks like they accepted the new gyne, but in reality they just ignore it and won't feed and care for it.
Or am I way to sceptical here.

I know they are not ignoring this queen as when I introduced her to the colony, four workers ran over to her, started sensing her with their jaws wide open, but then they started to clean her.


  • Wa.Va likes this

Spoiler


#9 Offline Wa.Va - Posted December 4 2018 - 12:40 PM

Wa.Va

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 26 posts


I don't think it is possible to wash away pheromones with water..? In flooded areas sometimes for example Myrmica spp. still find its way back, after wondering far from home after a storm.

Also sometimes it looks like they accepted the new gyne, but in reality they just ignore it and won't feed and care for it.
Or am I way to sceptical here.

I know they are not ignoring this queen as when I introduced her to the colony, four workers ran over to her, started sensing her with their jaws wide open, but then they started to clean her.

Okay, that is very good news. So this might actually work then.:) can't wait till tommorows update !

#10 Offline CloudtheDinosaurKing - Posted December 4 2018 - 2:03 PM

CloudtheDinosaurKing

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 173 posts
  • LocationSouth Carolina, United States

I have moved all of them in, and they accepted them immediately! The first queen I introduced is not doing too good however, bu I think she is just hibernating as every time one of the workers bothers her she stands up and kicks around, but then goes back to her position. The original queen actually walked over to her and nudged her with her head. That was cool to watch. This was totally a success, and I can't wait until their brood stats to grow again next year. Their current brood is currently at the first instar, and they actually hatched a few weeks ago.


Spoiler


#11 Offline CloudtheDinosaurKing - Posted December 4 2018 - 5:13 PM

CloudtheDinosaurKing

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 173 posts
  • LocationSouth Carolina, United States

I observed one of the workers feeding one of the new queens, so now I know they will be okay.


Spoiler


#12 Offline AnthonyP163 - Posted December 4 2018 - 7:39 PM

AnthonyP163

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 469 posts
  • LocationWaukesha, Wisconsin.

I somehow have a feeling this will eventually fade. I've seen this experiment done in Tetramorium sp. (which I suspect can be somewhat polygynous in the wild), and the queens lasted no longer than two months together. Maybe it's something with the pheromones coming back differently. However, I wish you good luck.


  • gcsnelling likes this

#13 Offline CloudtheDinosaurKing - Posted December 4 2018 - 7:46 PM

CloudtheDinosaurKing

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 173 posts
  • LocationSouth Carolina, United States

Hmm, I'll have to see how they do together. So far there are no signs of aggression, and more of compassion as they are cleaning each other. I will keep a very close eye on them though.


Edited by CloudtheDinosaurKing, December 4 2018 - 7:48 PM.

Spoiler


#14 Offline nurbs - Posted December 4 2018 - 11:33 PM

nurbs

    Advanced Member

  • Moderators
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,230 posts
  • LocationLos Angeles

Vinegar diluted with water also works. 

 

But the reason they are accepting them now is because the colony is still very young. It is much easier for brood and workers to accept a new queen and vice versa during the founding stage. I do this all the time with young colonies when either the queen dies or the workers die. The pheromones are still "malleable" and not set. I do not know the chemistry behind this, but I do know young colonies are much more tolerant of accepting foreign workers or queens then combing two mature colonies with hundreds or thousands of workers, which will not work.

 

As the colony grows the workers or the dominant queen will attack and kill the other queens.


Edited by nurbs, December 4 2018 - 11:35 PM.

  • dspdrew, T.C. and ANTdrew like this

Los Angeles Antkeeper
YouTube

 

Instagram:

nurbsants

 

California Ants for Sale

 

Pencil Case and Test Tube Formicariums

http://www.formicult...m-and-outworld/

 

Bloodworm Soup

http://www.formicult...bloodworm-soup/


#15 Offline CloudtheDinosaurKing - Posted December 5 2018 - 5:28 AM

CloudtheDinosaurKing

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 173 posts
  • LocationSouth Carolina, United States

Vinegar diluted with water also works. 

 

But the reason they are accepting them now is because the colony is still very young. It is much easier for brood and workers to accept a new queen and vice versa during the founding stage. I do this all the time with young colonies when either the queen dies or the workers die. The pheromones are still "malleable" and not set. I do not know the chemistry behind this, but I do know young colonies are much more tolerant of accepting foreign workers or queens then combing two mature colonies with hundreds or thousands of workers, which will not work.

 

As the colony grows the workers or the dominant queen will attack and kill the other queens.

Okay. I will remove the other queens if they show any signs of aggression towards each other or the workers start to attack them. I have seen that in the documentary "Empire of  the Desert Ants" with Myrmecocystus mimicus where the workers killed all but one of the several queens and apparently Pheidole navigans does that too, accepting several queen to found with, but the dominant queen always kills the surrounding queen before the brood even hatches.


Spoiler


#16 Offline AntsCalifornia - Posted December 8 2018 - 12:34 PM

AntsCalifornia

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 220 posts

I think I read somewhere that the reason behind this is that it is too much work for the colony to take care of all the queens and all their alates, so they keep only the strongest queen.



#17 Offline CloudtheDinosaurKing - Posted December 8 2018 - 12:56 PM

CloudtheDinosaurKing

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 173 posts
  • LocationSouth Carolina, United States

I think I read somewhere that the reason behind this is that it is too much work for the colony to take care of all the queens and all their alates, so they keep only the strongest queen.

Yeah, so I will definitely have to make sure the colony is well fed. They also have repletes, so they are really not eating too much at the moment.


Spoiler


#18 Offline Serafine - Posted December 8 2018 - 2:06 PM

Serafine

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,133 posts
  • LocationGermany

There's studies indicating that many species which grow massive colonies can become oligynous, specifically Messor and Camponotus species. The individual queens reside in different parts of the nest (or in sattelite outposts) because if they ever meet each other they will fight to the death. Obviously this means that the workers of those species are willing to accept new queens - which is actually supported by others studies showing that adoption is a normal founding strategy for large Camponotus and Messor colonies that have lost their queen (Camponotus workers can lay eggs that grow into males, basically the new queen provides a steady supply of new workers that help the old workers to raise their remaining alate brood and in return she gets an easy start and in the long run inherits the established nest).


We should respect all forms of consciousness. The body is just a vessel, a mere hull.

Join the antkeeping discord chat! & reddit - r/antkeeping

Welcome to Lazy Tube - My Camponotus Journal




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users