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Tucson, AZ, Nov 29 2018 ID Request - Camponotus ocreatus?

id tucson

Best Answer YsTheAnt , December 4 2018 - 3:46 PM

I believe group 2 Go to the full post


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17 replies to this topic

#1 Offline Maculata - Posted November 28 2018 - 9:10 PM

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Thread Summary to date:  

Camponotus (Subgenus Tanaemyrmex, New World Group II: picipes-fumidus) sp.

Possibly C. semitestaceus, consistent with size and color.

Maybe C. sansabeanus but it looks too small. Far to small for C. ocreatus

 

1. Location (on a map) of collection: Tucson, AZ, southern foothills of Santa Catalina Mountains

2. Date of collection: July 15, 2018
3. Habitat of collection: Sonoran Desert, 2400ft, foothills of Santa Catalina Mountains, mesquite trees and cactus
4. Length (from head to gaster): Queen 14mm as collected, 16mm as the abdomen swelled, minor (first) workers 6-7mm
5. Color, hue, pattern and texture: Workers  light yellow; queen dark head to light yellow abdomen
6. Distinguishing characteristics: 
7. Distinguishing behavior: Excitable
8. Nest description: Suspect under barrow cactus

9. Nuptial flight time and date: July 15, 2018 found on roadway early evening

 

http://www.formicult...-camponotus-sp/

 

[Images of ant] (Queen found on roadway early evening - 100 ft from nest below)

 


00000026 Nsi
00000036 Nsi
00000037 Nsi
00000029 Nsi
00000025 Nsi
00000002 Nsi
00000001 Nsi
00000003 Nsi
 

[Images of nest]

 

I did not see the queens come from this nest; however, it's close to where I found them.

Possible nest and w/pictures of workers posted at nest entrance

A worker from the nest: 7mm in length from the nest; very similar to Queen's workers

 

IMG 1902 nsi2
00000018 Nsi
00000017 Nsi

 

 
[Images of habitat] (Near where queens found)

 

IMG 1110 nsi2


Edited by Maculata, December 15 2018 - 10:41 AM.


#2 Offline Maculata - Posted November 28 2018 - 9:23 PM

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Images fixed, dropbox references deleted


Edited by Maculata, November 29 2018 - 10:04 PM.


#3 Offline Jean - Posted November 29 2018 - 7:34 PM

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The body and head shape looks right and those eyes that bulge a little sure look right, and c. ocreatus has workers with golden gaster and midsection but a brownish/black head.  Length of the major worker around 12 mm. They also fly in July. A lot of circumstantial evidence ….Very cool looking species!



#4 Offline Maculata - Posted November 29 2018 - 8:33 PM

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I updated the description as follows:

 

Was: 

 

4. Length (from head to gaster):  14mm

 

Now: 

 

4. Length (from head to gaster): Queen 14mm, minor (first) workers 6-7mm

7. Distinguishing behavior: Excitable

Fixed spelling

Added images


Edited by Maculata, November 29 2018 - 10:29 PM.


#5 Offline Ferox_Formicae - Posted November 30 2018 - 12:22 PM

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Yup, Camponotus ocreatus for sure. The shape and orientation of the hairs on the mesosoma and abdomen of the queen, the hairs of the workers and their long legs combined with their long legs and their coloration leave no questions to ask. Beautiful queen by the way. I have always loved the queens in this species and related species. Here in South Carolina, we have Camponotus americanus which is a beautiful species, but nowhere near Camponotus ocreatus.


Currently Keeping:

 

Camponotus chromaiodes, Camponotus nearcticus, Stigmatomma pallipesStrumigenys brevisetosaStrumigenys clypeataStrumigenys louisianaeStrumigenys membraniferaStrumigenys reflexaStrumigenys rostrata

 

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#6 Offline YsTheAnt - Posted November 30 2018 - 7:24 PM

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This is most definitely not Camponotus ocreatus. 14mm is way to small for that. My guess is C. semitestaceus, much more consistent with size and color. Maybe C. sansabeanus but it looks too small. Far to small for C. ocreatus.

Edited by YsTheAnt, November 30 2018 - 7:25 PM.

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#7 Offline Ferox_Formicae - Posted November 30 2018 - 7:51 PM

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This is most definitely not Camponotus ocreatus. 14mm is way to small for that. My guess is C. semitestaceus, much more consistent with size and color. Maybe C. sansabeanus but it looks too small. Far to small for C. ocreatus.

They look way too leggy for either of those species. I'm still sticking with C. oreatus. They fit more with the legginess.


Currently Keeping:

 

Camponotus chromaiodes, Camponotus nearcticus, Stigmatomma pallipesStrumigenys brevisetosaStrumigenys clypeataStrumigenys louisianaeStrumigenys membraniferaStrumigenys reflexaStrumigenys rostrata

 

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#8 Offline YsTheAnt - Posted November 30 2018 - 7:57 PM

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In ant IDing, size matters a lot. 14mm is WAY to small for Camponotus ocreatus, the largest Camponotus in North America.

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#9 Offline Ferox_Formicae - Posted November 30 2018 - 8:06 PM

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In ant IDing, size matters a lot. 14mm is WAY to small for Camponotus ocreatus, the largest Camponotus in North America.

Hmm...


Currently Keeping:

 

Camponotus chromaiodes, Camponotus nearcticus, Stigmatomma pallipesStrumigenys brevisetosaStrumigenys clypeataStrumigenys louisianaeStrumigenys membraniferaStrumigenys reflexaStrumigenys rostrata

 

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#10 Offline Maculata - Posted November 30 2018 - 10:27 PM

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Thank you for helping in the ID.  Is there a different camera angle that you need?  I re-verified the queen's length, mouth to end of abdomen: 14mm as collected and 16mm as the abdomen swelled when she started getting fed by her  new workers.  I collected 7, 4 started colonies (all in good health - 3 to 6 initial workers each).  Three never laid eggs and one of those is still kicking about.  



#11 Offline YsTheAnt - Posted November 30 2018 - 11:06 PM

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Could you get some really close up shots of the head of a worker, from a front to top angle? In order to key these out we need to be able to see the hairs on the cheek, as well as the clypeus (spot right above the mandibles). The cheek hairs are most important though as if these nest in dirt they probably have a clypeal carnia.

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#12 Offline Maculata - Posted December 1 2018 - 12:15 AM

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Adding some cheeky shots for ID [ also see album for higher resolution ]

 

A60A9090 NSI
A60A9098 NSI
A60A9102 NSI
A60A9108 NSI
A60A9111 NSI
A60A9112 NSI
A60A9113 NSI
A60A9132 NSI
A60A9118 NSI
A60A9117 NSI
A60A9124 NSI

 


Edited by Maculata, December 1 2018 - 12:47 AM.


#13 Offline gcsnelling - Posted December 1 2018 - 5:15 AM

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You guys are all over the place with an Id. Yet you are forgetting one species, well species group for which that worker color pattern is fairly definitive, well as definitive as an ants color ever is.


Edited by gcsnelling, December 1 2018 - 11:43 AM.


#14 Offline YsTheAnt - Posted December 1 2018 - 7:58 AM

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Would that species group be Tanaemyrmex?

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#15 Offline gcsnelling - Posted December 1 2018 - 11:33 AM

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Tanaemyrmex is a subgenus, not a species group. However the species/species group I have in mind is a member of that subgenus.



#16 Offline Maculata - Posted December 3 2018 - 4:56 PM

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Can I get some help?   New world narrows to 4 Groups
I can not fully parse the diagnostic differences.   Thanks.
 
Subfamily: Formicinae
Tribe: Camponotini
Genus: Camponotus
 
Tanaemyrmex is currently a subgenus of Camponotus
 
Slim Carpenter Ants
 
Diagnosis: Emery (1925): - "Workers. - Caste polymorphism generally very pronounced in head form and size; polymorphism gradual through extreme forms. Head of majors usually much wider posteriorly than anteriorly, truncated or notched on posteriorly. Head of minors elongated and of very different forms:
 
(Alpha) sides substantially parallel and posterior margin usually rounded; vertex not depressed.
 
(Beta) sides converging posteriorly from mouth; vertex evidently depressed and eyes more-or-less distant from posterior margin.
 
(Gamma) characters in this form become more and more pronounced: posterior half of head, from eyes, cone-shaped and occipital border disappears, reduced to articular border; sometimes, posterior extremity of head extends as neck and more-or-less marked, especially when posterior half of head is not conical but ogival (missile-shaped) (e.g., C. hildebrandtii, Forel, cervicalis, Roger, etc.).
 
There are, moreover, intermediaries between these forms of minor worker heads. Species in which minors have head forms Beta and Gamma have medias with heads which are more-or-less Alpha-form; head of minors with form Gamma and small medias or majors have head form Beta.
 
 
 
Species groups
Emery (1925) divided Tanaemyrmex into 12 species groups––four from the New World, and eight from the Old World––plus a number of "anonymous" (unnamed) groups of uncertain affinity. Below are his diagnoses of these groups, all based on workers:
 
 
SPECIES GROUPS OF AMERICA
 
Group I: chilensis-punctulatus
 
Diagnosis. - Head of minors of form Alpha; species more-or-less stocky, especially majors. Color generally black or dark, rarely pale; gasters of some species covered with more-or-less dense pubescence. Transition more or less marked to Camponotus sensu stricto and Myrmaphaenus.
 
 
Group II: picipes-fumidus
 
Diagnosis. - Head of minors of form Alpha. Species not stocky. Color variable, rarely uniform yellow. In some species tibial setae more-or-less detached erect (transitioning to Myrmothrix).
 
 
Group III: Iandolti-agra
 
Diagnosis. - Head of minors of form Beta or Gamma; species medium-sized to very large; elongate to very elongate, especially minors; legs not hairy. Includes American species of subgenus Dinomyrmex sensu Forel.
 
 
Group IV: cacicus
 
Diagnosis. - As for previous group, but with numerous standing setae.
 
---
 
Clypeus generally carinate medially; anterior margin with more-or-less prominant lobe, lobe square or rounded, rarely notched or acute medially; lobe often rounded in minors, and becomes increasingly rectangular in larger workers; medioclypeus (middle portion of clypeus between anterior tentorial pits) not prominent in majors, so that in workers of all sizes clypeus as a whole (excluding anterior lobe and lateral clypeal parts) is trapezoidal. Frontal carinae more-or-less sinuate; antennal insertions usually not far from posterior clypeal margin. Mandibles with simple teeth (usually 6–7), apical tooth longer than others, but not excessively. Mesosomal dorsum never marginate, arched in profile, propodeum rarely hollowed out posteriorly or with saddle-shape. Petiole surmounted by more-or-less high scale, rarely nodiform, rarely with unpaired spine (C. hastifer, Emery, hoplites, Emery). Sculpture and investiture variable; in some American species, gaster covered with fur-like pubescence (e.g., C. chilensis, Spinola). Setae of scapes and tibiae in American species never erect, long and abundant, except in C. cacicus, Emery. Queens. - Head form similar to majors, but not of largest workers in a colony. Males. - Head more-or-less elongated. Antennae long: scape exceeding posterior head margin by at least half its length; pedicel and flagellum composed of more-or-less elongate antennomeres, pedicel nor or only slightly longer than antennomere 3 and not at all pyriform (pear-shaped); rarely antennomeres of flagellum very short and pedicel somewhat pyriform (e.g., C. friedae, Forel, acvapimensis, Mayr, punctulatus, Mayr).
 


#17 Offline YsTheAnt - Posted December 4 2018 - 3:46 PM   Best Answer

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I believe group 2

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#18 Offline Maculata - Posted December 16 2018 - 12:19 AM

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Added a head shot of a non-fertile queen that is still hanging on from July. She has been feed.      Question:

That if the white stuff at some joints and on head?

1) Mites

2) Fungus

3) White dust from the ground cricket food that the sp. will eat  for food stuck in spots that can not be cleaned without a helper

 

IMG 0060 S NSI

IMG 0036 S NSI

Edited by Maculata, December 16 2018 - 12:21 AM.






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