52 replies to this topic

[Vendayn]

I don't mean releasing native ants that were in captivity. Which is a slightly different subject.

 

I mean, in areas invaded by Argentine ants, and they are attacking native ant colonies with no chance of success (or bulldozers are going over them). Do you think its okay to take those colonies (which have at that point 100% chance of death), release them nearby (within an hour's walk) and attempt to get them to expand in an area surrounded by Argentine ants? By that, there is 0 native ants in the area at all, all non-native or invasive ants.

I have done this with Pogonomyrmex californicus, Forelius mccooki/pruinosus and Monomorium ergatogyna and found HUGE success at doing this. The P. californicus were being invaded by hordes of Argentine ants. Forelius were soon to be bulldozed for a new housing community or an apartment complex and the M. ergatogyna were near the Forelius.

 

It has been a few months now, and both the Forelius and Monomorium ergatogyna have SUCCESSFULLY colonized the local area by my apartment unit and have driven off the Argentine ants.

 

The P. californicus colonies have both grown quite large now too. One has even dug under the road to the other side of the street.

 

Does anyone see a problem with this? Or do you think its better to let the native ants die, do nothing to help them and let invasive ants take over? Keeping in mind, pest control doesn't really care about Argentine ants anymore and state budget, there is barely any pest control anymore (I almost never see them like I used to).

Edited by Vendayn, August 30 2015 - 10:25 PM.

[Vendayn]

And by local, I mean, in the surrounding area you live. All these I got within an hour walk from here. I didn't drive to another county/region or anything like that.

Edited by Vendayn, August 30 2015 - 10:32 PM.

[Gregory2455]

It is still bad because while there are now native ants instead of invasive ones, the diversity of species is no longer there.

[Foogoo]

You're looking at a microscopic section (the complex) of a huge interconnected ecosystem. Just leave nature alone and let it do it's thing.

 

Not to mention human impacts. What if you're too successful at reintroducing native ants that other residents start noticing and someone calls the exterminator to carpet the area with poison?

[Vendayn]

So, instead of killing or letting the apartments know about the Pheidole megacephala (I found a nest the apartments didn't kill off), I should instead just ignore them and let them do their thing? Don't bother with native ants anymore? Last time I told the apartments of all the P. megacephala the gardeners introduced from their plants and they killed a bunch. There are probably a few colonies scattered around.

[William. T]

Just don't. I mean, very few ants are even listed as endangered. I know Argentines can be a pain in the butt in your area, but bring in the S. xyloni isn't going to help. Plus, as previously sad, some neighbors may notice and get heavy handed with the Raid. Invasives are nothing new, the ecosystems have some what adapted to them, ect. the birds in your area may be adapted to eating one of bug Argentines ignore. If you introduce natives, they might eat that bug and the birds starve. Just don't do it.

[Mdrogun]

I think that this is a great idea. 

[kellakk]

... I mean, very few ants are even listed as endangered. ...

 

This is a problem with how species are recognised as endangered, not a sign that no ants are in decline.

[NightsWebs]

Pogonomyrmex are in decline and with it the horned lizard population especially coastal variants due to every inch of the coastline being populated.  One of the reasons I have so much interest in ants was because of the Pogonomyrmex and horned lizards from my childhood.  If you can save a Pogonomyrmex nest I am all for it!  The argentine ants are the real problem as far as pest ants go. 

[JoshuaGF]

Invasive species can have one of the most disastrous impacts on local ecosystems. This is why we are not allowed to buy and sell ants in America. Biologists work hard at trying to get rid of invasive species. Take the Asian Carp for example. When a fisherman catches one, they are encouraged to kill them and not to throw them back in the water. Florida has some invasive species they are trying to get rid of. Here is a good page on the negative effects Argentine ants have on the environment. Keep in mind these are just some of the ones we know about. http://cisr.ucr.edu/argentine_ant.html Get rid of them when you can and ensure the survival of native species. Invasive species and habitat loss are two of the major causes of extinction.

[dspdrew]

Buying and selling ants is not illegal in America; transporting them across state lines is.

[JoshuaGF]

That's what I was referring to dspdrew

[William. T]

Great, know Pogonomyrmex are in decline but who knows what's going to happen when the balance of power changes. Even of you eliminate one threat, there will be a power vacuum. Every colony wants it's own territory. And if you introduce a massive S. Xyloni to combat Argentines, what if it becomes the next overlord? It's like the U.S supplying weapons to Bin Laden and the rest of the jihadists when the Soviet invaded Afghanistan." Anything to beat the Commies," right? Well, look at 9/11, Iran and ISIS. Sounds good one moment, but having something replace the current power in an area is like that. Trust, I know what happens when you eliminate one threat. Tetramorium SpE used to be common. Now, when everyone dished out their Raid and then stopped using it, T. Sessile rules. I know of instances where T. Sessile loses their foothold in an area because of an outside force and a native Pheidole rises to their place. It's a trade off, but having a wolf in the place of a poodle isn't going to work.

[Vendayn]

Well, it seems my efforts are probably in vain anyway. I keep finding small surviving Pheidole megacephala colonies all around, which I guess many small colonies survived the mass pest control the apartment complex did. I have even see them outside the complex along the main road, battling it out with Argentine ants.

 

On top of that, Solenopsis invicta are becoming VERY quickly more and more common here in the apartment complex and surrounding area. The other day there were hundreds of males all over in the pool belong to Solenopsis invicta, which means there must be TONS of new queens that will start up massive colonies.

 

Argentine ants are very quickly becoming a losing ant, where as S. invicta are taking their #1 place.

 

I'll be curious to see if Pheidole megacephala can beat out Solenopsis invicta (and the native Monomorium ergatogyna which 100% win against Argentine ants AND 99% of the time against Solenopsis invicta) as my efforts of saving native ants is probably going to come to an end. I don't think I have the time or manpower to beat many huge colonies of Pheidole megacephala. And the apartment workers spent all day killing "all" the colonies and still failed at that, even with hundreds of ant baits.

Edited by Vendayn, September 2 2015 - 7:24 PM.

[gcsnelling]

Would you please send me a sample of the apparent P. megacephala you are reporting about?

Edited by gcsnelling, September 6 2015 - 3:54 AM.

[dspdrew]

I think we've been through this before.

[gcsnelling]

I suspect so.

[PTAntFan]

Just a philosophical opinion.

 

I think the notion of people transplanting ants having any meaning or lasting impact on what mother nature wants to happen is absurdly arrogant.  I believe humans are part of nature, not separate from it.  What we do is part of evolution.  I think our laws and rules about transporting ants here and there is silly and shortsighted in the grand scheme of Earth.  How long have ants been on the Earth compared to humans...

[William. T]

Just don't do it. Don't release anything, anywhere.  

[Vendayn]

Would you please send me a sample of the apparent P. megacephala you are reporting about?

I asked dad again, cause I think you asked before.

 

He said its none of our business and its up to the apartments to deal with them. He doesn't want to send packages to people nor does he want to be noticed by the apartment complex, and since I live under his house and all...

 

I will say this. They look 100% like the ones out in Costa Mesa. They beat Argentine ants with barely any effort and I've seen in one of the bigger colonies, over 50 queens budding into various new nests along the river. The river has billion(s) of Argentine ants and they are being defeated like crazy. I've never seen Argentine ants get owned by another ant so badly, not even by Solenopsis invicta.

 

If not Pheidole megacephala, they are definitely some type of invasive Pheidole ant.

 

Also, if you see my journal about it. Some old cranky dude had a colony of them in his plant pot he just got the other day. The ants are all nesting in his garage wall (he likes it I guess because he said they kill cockroaches). Well, they've been expanding (its probably some tens of thousand ants) outside too and despite the Argentine ants horde of numbers (its a big supercolony of them)...are being slowly pushed back. In fact, today the Argentine ants have been nearly pushed back to the sidewalk alongside the main road.

 

With all that, I'm pretty sure they aren't any native Pheidole. ;P These ones even bud out their colony and at least the one by the river, has gotten quite large.

 

They appeared after the gardeners started planting new plants to the area. Last year they did the same, but this time they got more drought tolerant plants. Solenopsis invicta showed up too after they got the new plants, and there are still a couple colonies of them around. But, they are all around the area anyway, so they were bound to show up eventually.

Edited by Vendayn, September 6 2015 - 5:11 PM.